ostheer CAS overperforming.

How about not one step back tactics guy?



Armour company commander looks better.

You dont mention the soviet mechanized support tactics at all

Who is hip compared to all the other soviet commanders
Who also fails in comparison to the Wehrmacht Encirclement Doctrine commander

Who looks like a hipster pimp that parties with Katy Perry and Lady Gaga everyday

Such a great quantity of bias needed to start such a thread. Ostheer doesn't have anything that can be called OP currently, but alot of things that can be easilly called UP.

You cant be serious?

You cant be serious?

It's currently the worst faction for a reason, what good units it does have are overpriced which is why Tiger call in meta and gimmick docs like CAS are all the rage these days.

It's currently the worst faction for a reason, what good units it does have are overpriced which is why Tiger call in meta and gimmick docs like CAS are all the rage these days.

Tiger callin should not be the object of any rage. Tiger tank is almost at its worst performance since first day of the game. In 1v1 Ostheer is usually wrecked by usf and soviets and in team games it usually ain't nothing but a crutch for OKW's poor economy. That tactic with CAS described at "Guides" section it's okayish but it pushes you to an infantry based game - due to conversion - therefore having in view the ostheer infantry current state, in lategame your army will be weak exposed to squadwhipes from tanks, AOE weapons and not only. So, in an ostheer/okw team game, it will not provide the middle game vehicles needed support for OKW, it will provide just infantry, something that OKW already has, but stronger and more appropiate, compared to ostheer. This will lead to verry few vehicles in late game for axis team, a weakness which exploited as it should be by allied (with an apropriate number of medium tanks) will insure an almost certain win.
Here you are - the way to efficiently win against this "OP" tactic. Nothing new I guess.

CAS is what currently keeps Ostheer in the game.

Ask yourself why it is being used so much...

1) It´s finally a doctrine that provides a tool to suppress nasty blobs - which to be honest should be punished. The MG42 is garbage, so you pretty much have to use CAS in competitive games.

2) German tanks:

a) The Tiger proofed lackluster in the recent patch. It´s a beefed up Panzer IV, annihilating infantry - but rather lacking versus tanks. The survivability/ health is low. It get´s instantly defeated by Jacksons.

b) T3 is useless versus USA. T4 is too expensive.

c) As Ostheer tanks are unsatisfactory once a USA player is in the game, it´s better spent on converting ammo.

3) Ostheer is lacking ammo anyway.


--> It´s pretty sad that fuel conversion > tanks. But that´s what you get if you introduce a 240 damage, 60 range, highly mobile tank destroyer and P47s to the game.

--> It´s also a good counter to blobs. If the MG42 doesn´t do its job, expect people to use a doctrine that can (lel).


I see the doctrine as justice served. It counters abusing blobbers and borderline OP Jacksons, if you don´t pay attention to the smoke. Ostheer players adapted to the abusive gameplay. Now it´s the other sides turn I guess.

The Fuel to munitions to conversion comes way too early at only 3 command points, it's absurd. The idea behind CAS is sacrifice Tanks for air support, except at only 3CP it allows the Wehrmacht to just steam roll the early game with 5 LMG Grens, Flamer Pios and S mines. It's impossible for Allies to engage against such a munitions heavy army so early into the game.

Yes you do sacrifice fuel for the munitions influx so it could be argued that you can counter the LMG Gren/S Mine/Flamer Pio spam with a fast T-70/Stuart/M15. But that can easily be countered by Panzer Shreks, Teller mines and infinite fausts. As for the late game Wehrmacht still has great non-doctrinal tanks with the Panther and Brumbar. Obviously not as potent as a Tiger but with all the strafes to compliment, it's more than enough.

The only way to fight it as Soviets at least is to build a sniper, Maxims don't work because of infinite Rifle Nades. However some maps such as Kholodny or Stalingrad render Snipers completely worthless. It also requires pre-emptively building a sniper, just incase they may decide to all out Munitions spam in the early game. Which they could just even bother doing.

The Fuel into Munitions conversation needs to either have it's efficient significantly reduced, or at the very least have the Command Point requirement increased from 3 to something much higher to prevent the early game abuse.

As someone who had 2 +25 streaks as CAS only 2v2 player (not anymore because since MWNL everyone has it - not cool anymore ) I can tell you guys that the commander for sure has more than enough weaknesses.

If you think it through for just a few moments you will see it for yourself, but I will not spoil all the fun of it by just telling. And of course because I do not like to share strategies that can be used against me

Just a few keywords that you might want to think about:

-Manpower
-Squad wipes
-Fuel
-Map Control/Harassment

The Fuel to munitions to conversion comes way too early at only 3 command points, it's absurd.

It actualy comes when you need it, not a minute to soon, not a minute to late.

The idea behind CAS is sacrifice Tanks for air support, except at only 3CP it allows the Wehrmacht to just steam roll the early game with 5 LMG Grens, Flamer Pios and S mines. It's impossible for Allies to engage against such a munitions heavy army so early into the game.

Are we talking about 1v1? 2v2? Maybe more? 'Cause the situation you described it's more likely to happen in 1v1 games. But then let's not forget who is steamrolling whom. Untill those 3 CPs USF won't steamroll Ostheer? Penal troops spam won't steamroll grenadiers? And so on..... Ability allows for a convertion from 50 fuel into 120 amo. What can you do with 120 amo? Let's see... You can upgrade one and a half gren unit, or 2 pios... or ... should I give schrecks to that pzgren squad because a T34 will come pretty soon? Get the idea? The convertion just cover the necessity for Ostheer to have a well armed infantry (but still insufficient, let's not forget the med bunker, mines, etc, etc...). Insufficient because you can't have all upgrades you need so soon as you imply. And you still sacrifice alot of fuel while playing with the most expensive teching faction in game.

Yes you do sacrifice fuel for the munitions influx so it could be argued that you can counter the LMG Gren/S Mine/Flamer Pio spam with a fast T-70/Stuart/M15. But that can easily be countered by Panzer Shreks, Teller mines and infinite fausts. As for the late game Wehrmacht still has great non-doctrinal tanks with the Panther and Brumbar. Obviously not as potent as a Tiger but with all the strafes to compliment, it's more than enough.

Let's not forget that who is using alot of infantry in this game (even well-armed) will be strongly disadvanaged later because of 2 factors:
1. high squad-whiping probability;
2. high squad whiping probability increased even more in ostheer case because of number of models in squad.

The Fuel into Munitions conversation needs to either have it's efficient significantly reduced, or at the very least have the Command Point requirement increased from 3 to something much higher to prevent the early game abuse.

Strongly disagree, I don't see it as an abuse. Let's not forget that this ability appears in Ostruppen doctrine too, and nobody complained.

Such a great quantity of bias needed to start such a thread. Ostheer doesn't have anything that can be called OP currently, but alot of things that can be easilly called UP.

-Stuka LOITERING strike.
-Some consider Stug-E.
-TWP is op on it's current state.

-Stuka LOITERING strike.
-Some consider Stug-E.
-TWP is op on it's current state.

TWP?

TWP?

Target Weak Point

TWP is funny because it gets less OP the higher caliber the gun it's on.

It's currently the worst faction for a reason, what good units it does have are overpriced which is why Tiger call in meta and gimmick docs like CAS are all the rage these days.

Ur wrong..

All Ost units perform well, with the exception of the sniper , mg42, and panzerwrfer.

Tech costs are ost main problem.

This faction will be viable in ones again, simply by making tech cost viable.

Ur wrong..

All Ost units perform well, with the exception of the sniper , mg42, and panzerwrfer.

Tech costs are ost main problem.

This faction will be viable in one again, simply by making tech cost viable.

That is exactly what I said. Good units, but overpriced.

As someone who had 2 +25 streaks as CAS only 2v2 player (not anymore because since MWNL everyone has it - not cool anymore ) I can tell you guys that the commander for sure has more than enough weaknesses.

If you think it through for just a few moments you will see it for yourself, but I will not spoil all the fun of it by just telling. And of course because I do not like to share strategies that can be used against me

Hah. I remember your 2v2 getting casted by Ciez. I am the one who 'shit' posted in the youtube comment btw.

Just a few keywords that you might want to think about:

-Manpower
-Squad wipes
-Fuel
-Map Control/Harassment

isn't that a "counter" to all types of play?

Ur wrong..

All Ost units perform well, with the exception of the sniper , mg42, and panzerwrfer.

Tech costs are ost main problem.

This faction will be viable in ones again, simply by making tech cost viable.

So that's imply 222 perform well, okay, well played.

So that's imply 222 perform well, okay, well played.

Ur right,

I forgot about that unit.

low HP and armor

the flame half track also is never used

Ur right,

I forgot about that unit.

low HP and armor

the flame half track also is never used

Again, the flame HT is just overpriced, it's not actually that bad.

-Manpower
-Squad wipes
-Fuel
-Map Control/Harassment

isn't that a "counter" to all types of play?

Generally speaking: yes.

Ostheer is double penalized by it though.
Manpower: high reinforcement costs.
Squad wipes: 4 man squads really ask for being wiped.
Fuel: Most expensive teching and T3 not viable against USF.
map control: unlike every other faction OH has to invest MP into T1 building before even able to build grenadiers which leads to -1 combat unit being on field to any other faction. This amplifies when being against USF since grenadiers have to have some lucky RNG or cover in their favour as well as the USF player no being a complete troll. In Late Game USF single BAR will win 90% of all 1v1 engagement against similar vetted LMG grens not to speak of double bar'd ones - so actually capping with a lone unit is seriously not viable at all as OH.

Ur wrong..

All Ost units perform well, with the exception of the sniper , mg42, and panzerwrfer.

Tech costs are ost main problem.

This faction will be viable in ones again, simply by making tech cost viable.

You forgot 222/221 and Pgrens.