Sturm pioneers are overpriced

Man I can't wait to see the justifications as to why Vet 5 Volks are a good thing for the game.

Nobody has actually said this.

then what are they?

Assault Engineers. They don't build things, they attack enemy troops and repair things

Well don't forget that demos can't be used while sweeper is out and close to the demo.

Nope, killed many a Sturm squad because they thought Demo's actually worked like mines.

Stormpios are fine. When compared with the 280mp assault engis, of the same role, that they outclass, it's should be obvious why they cost as much as they do.

Sry dont want to be a jerk here, but on reviewing that engagement, you actually did mismicro that badly. I know it is frowned upon in some quarters, but a-moving is absolutely recommendable with all LMG squads upon contact.

It does not matter. Paras have higher DPS. Full health. Its all about bad rng but insane vet.

It does not matter. Paras have higher DPS. Full health. Its all about bad rng but insane vet.

A. Never get into close combat with Sturms. B. If your losing retreat, Sturms have much less DPS on the move. and C. Don't give Sturms hugs with your LMG infantry.

Do you also think Ober's should beat Shocks in close combat?

It does not matter. Paras have higher DPS. Full health. Its all about bad rng but insane vet.

Not sure I get your point here. RNG is just that, sometimes ie. Grens beat Cons in a close range fight or vice versa at long range but that is not overly meaningful, the statistical average is. 1919 Paras excel at static combat from standoff distance, their LMGs, which are their main dps dealers, have only 25%(IIRC) accuracy on the move. Sturms on the other hand, with their assault rifle weapon profile, excel at defeating flanks, and you played right into your opponents cards here.
I'd really advise a-moving to contact with all LMG squads on the minimap, even if you only intent to cap, as this protects you from nasty surprises, such as running into Shocks, and closing the distance for them. After you get the audio, position to cover. Dedicated CC squads like Shocks on the other hand should always use conventional move orders as this will prevent you from losing any time in closing to ideal engagement range.

A. Never get into close combat with Sturms. B. If your losing retreat, Sturms have much less DPS on the move. and C. Don't give Sturms hugs with your LMG infantry.

Do you also think Ober's should beat Shocks in close combat?

Do you see difference between point blank, close, medium? It close/medium. Not hugging LMGs distance. 3 Models left, they have 1/4dps lower, they are damaged, Paras are full health, not moving (full dps) and still losing to SP negating all rules.

Of course Obers will win agasint Shocks. Smoke is useless since Obers can shoot with LMG on the move and while getting close, Obers will inflict enough damage to deal with them at close range.
The only situation when Shocks can win against Obers is when they jump out around the corner or when Obers shoot at something else so Shocks can get close without any damage.

Buy STGs for them and they will become even more stronger. Vet3 Shocks have no chance vs vet 3/4 Obers with STGs. Guards with LMGs have no chance at long range with STGs Obers. Thery are melting eveyrthing. No matter if it is close range or long range.

Not sure I get your point here. RNG is just that, sometimes ie. Grens beat Cons in a close range fight or vice versa at long range but that is not overly meaningful, the statistical average is. 1919 Paras excel at static combat from standoff distance, their LMGs, which are their main dps dealers, have only 25%(IIRC) accuracy on the move. Sturms on the other hand, with their assault rifle weapon profile, excel at defeating flanks, and you played right into your opponents cards here.
I'd really advise a-moving to contact with all LMG squads on the minimap, even if you only intent to cap, as this protects you from nasty surprises, such as running into Shocks, and closing the distance for them. After you get the audio, position to cover. Dedicated CC squads like Shocks on the other hand should always use conventional move orders as this will prevent you from losing any time in closing to ideal engagement range.

I dont see moving Paras. I see not moving Paras with 100% DPS from LMGs.
Point is, it's 6full health models pure combat infantry vs 3 damaged models with lowe DPS of not pure combat infantry. Erease all vet bonuses and SP would be dead in a second. It's all about broken veterancy. Why they get 60% accuracy while Paras only 25%? Vet 5 system is broken.

Ober's will lose to shocks in close range. You lost to Sturms close range. This really isn't that hard of a concept to get.

And the point of smoke is you throw it to make him come to you, not so you can rush at him.

Ober's will lose to shocks in close range. You lost to Sturms close range. This really isn't that hard of a concept to get.

And the point of smoke is you throw it to make him come to you, not so you can rush at him.

God... I dont have words to describe you... It does not matter what range it is, since Paras have higer DPS. They inflict more damage at this range. It's about brutal veterancy from engineers troops when compare what pure combat troops get.

It's like 2/3 Paras with thompsons vs 4 Obers with LMG at close combat. Who will win? Of cource that Obers



So If I throw smoke at Grens with LMG, Grens will move into my Shocks?

God... I dont have words to describe you... It does not matter what range it is, since Paras have higer DPS. They inflict more damage at this range. It's about brutal veterancy from engineers troops when compare what pure combat troops get.

It's like 2/3 Paras with thompsons vs 4 Obers with LMG at close combat. Who will win? Of cource that Obers



So If I throw smoke at Grens with LMG, Grens will move into my Shocks?

3 Para's at close range with annihilate Obers. The Thompson is the highest dps small arms gun in the game!

The fact that you got beat in close range by Sturms that had Vet proves nothing other than the fact you chose your battle poorly and lost.

EDIT: And no, but if he wants to kill you to stop you from capping he will have to come to you!

3 Para's at close range with annihilate Obers. The Thompson is the highest dps small arms gun in the game!

The fact that you got beat in close range by Sturms that had Vet proves nothing other than the fact you chose your battle poorly and lost.

EDIT: And no, but if he wants to kill you to stop you from capping he will have to come to you!

Im just wasting time to show you, how wrong you are... I moved even further - red cover for Obers.






Similar distance to Paras vs SP.
Want me to move them closer? Effect will be the same.

Im just wasting time to show you, how wrong you are... I moved even further - red cover for Obers.






Similar distance to Paras vs SP.
Want me to move them closer? Effect will be the same.

You got messed up by RNG pal I'm sorry but them's the breaks.

Really Sturms aren't much of an issue, they are expensive.

You got messed up by RNG pal I'm sorry but them's the breaks.

Really Sturms aren't much of an issue, they are expensive.

He is talking about STG44 Obersoldaten.

StG44 Ober's actually have less DPS than a Para Tompson squad, but if you have 3 LMG para's going against a Sturm squad with 3 members your going to lose because Sturm = 4/6 while your para's are at 3/6.

Im just wasting time to show you, how wrong you are... I moved even further - red cover for Obers.






Similar distance to Paras vs SP.
Want me to move them closer? Effect will be the same.

Thompsons...

Weapon profile is different for Thompsons vs SP Stg since damage drop off is HUGE between the 10-15m, not so much with SP.

Copy pasting the analisys of that engagement (thx post history filter)

The engagement:
-Your vet 3 Paras 100%HP with 1919 are running and hitting some Volks retreating
-The SP vet 5 at 3 models and 65% HP on yellow cover start hitting them after turning.
-Paras are running through neutral cover but still not getting hit.
-First Para model is snipe and your LMG deploy. You are mostly on neutral cover (maybe 1/2 models on yellow) at CLOSE RANGE.
-Second para model down. 40% Hp with 4 models vs his %40hp with 3 models (he was lucky no model sniped)
-25% HP for 3 models of SP and 20% for 3 models of Paras. At this point only 1 model is on yellow cover.
-15% HP 3 Paras, 20% HP 2 SP.
-10%HP 2 SP, 5% 2 Paras.

And i'm gonna add. Having LMG at that distance is almost non beneficial at all. At 10m is actually worst.

The only "problem" with SPs is how easy it is for them to get wiped these days, but you can just retire them to repairing at vet 2 with a minesweeper if you fear that since they'll still be amazing at that.

Well don't forget that demos can't be used while sweeper is out and close to the demo.

sweepers do not prevent demos from being detonated and never have.

this makes it fucking annoying to try and deal with them because your sweeper squad keeps trying to sweep them even though the other player will detonate the demo if if you let them.

And the point of smoke is you throw it to make him come to you, not so you can rush at him.

I just wont waste my time for you anymore.
Proved that you are wrong about obers and Paras but for you its just rng. But its not because the result is always the same.
And the thing with smoke nades... Garden me... No comment. Its perfect for signature I guess.

They're in a good spot, especially compared to the meh assault engineers and assault grenadiers