How fight IS2 and ISU without tiger or elephant?

Hi guys, in many game i have a big problem with IS2 and ISU. I try attack with 2-3 Pz4 but i always lost them
Paks are good but a single shot to IS2 or ISU kill them easy.

ISU -> Pak43, flanking shrecks, flanking p4s, panther
IS2 -> Pak43, Pak40, Stug, flanking shrecks, panther, tellers

Mines. A lot of mines. Mines win games and, most importantly, they are a huge obstacle to enemy tanks. Is-2 loses about 40-50% of its health and gets engine damage. 2 Paks and maybe a P4 help you to clear it out. 2 Stugs also work nicely, simply because of Target Weakpoint. Makes them win against SU-85's, too.

If you are fighting an ISU152, remember that he has t choose between using AP or HE shells. Attack with your grens, followed by p4s and paks and sweeper Pios, and force him to choose between your armor and your infantry. If he chooses to target your armor, use the paks to set up a base of fire while you push up your grens / pshreck squad, and force him to move (he cant fire on the move). Use blitz on your armor to flank. If he targets your infantry, pull back your infantry (except pios and paks) and flank with your p4s.

IS2 is quite a bit harder. The best way to counter non-doctrinaly is to go panther, but this is not always feasible in a 1v1. Rely on tellers + 2-3 paks to damage the IS2, and don't commit your armor unless your enemy has overextended the IS2. Use a 221 or sniper to spot for your paks if you have the spare MP.

Remember, Target weak-point works now, so don't be afraid to use it to punish his armor.

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  Stoned_Killer

  TURBO?

  Taking down 5 IS2's

  by: turbotortoise map: Langreskaya

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A pretty emblematic game of the sort of insane struggles you can run into, it takes a lot of work, but i can be done as described.

Against IS-2
2 paks and shrecks.
Also, give it a reason to move, so it misses more shots. The best way to do this is is move two grenadiers towards the IS-2's back, one on each side. The soviet player won't risk getting fausted from the side or back, so he will move backwards. A fausted IS-2 is a dead IS-2.

Against ISU-152
As others said, flank it with infantry and vehicles simultaneously.
If you can't approach it, use mortars to create (the ever-underrated) smokescreens.
Or just swarm it with p4's. It works because of the long reload time and the not-so-good damage the ISU does against vehicles.

Hi guys, in many game i have a big problem with IS2 and ISU. I try attack with 2-3 Pz4 but i always lost them
Paks are good but a single shot to IS2 or ISU kill them easy.

The best weapons in each tier for taking down heavies is Pak40/Schreck squads. These get squad wiped a lot so use them in a support role.

StuG for T3. Panther for T4.

Out of all of these units I mentioned the Panther should be your main focus.

Really once IS2 and ISU-152's are hitting the field, QUIT BUILDING P4'S. WIthout any of the call ins the only tank that can pose a threat to either of them is a Panther. And your Panther needs Vet too, so keep it alive. Easier said than done, but losing your first panther can be the whole game right there.

Short of veterancy level 3 maybe, the P4 is a weak soft counter to the Soviet heavies. I usually quit building P4's once I see them churning out SU85's or for Americans, M36 Jacksons. When ISU-152's and IS2's are hitting the field, I tell my teammate "Panthers or better from here on out".


FOr those rounds that are giant tank battles it's good to have a commander with a lot of AT capabilities, Jaeger Armor is probably the best Wehrmacht commander for countering all allied armor in the game, Lightning War is too, and then maybe Close Air Support DOctrine. Why aren't you picking a commander with these call ins though? You need a selection of commanders that can counter the commander you're against. I like Jaeger Armor because not only do I get the Elefant, spotting scopes and Riegel AT Mines, but for Soviet Artillery spammers such as the Soviet Howitzer and B4, I can use an aerial reconnaissance overhead and then drop a stuka right onto his artillery piece, assuming you got the muni for it. Jaeger Armor alone has abilities that hard counters both Soviet Heavy Armor as well as their support weapons like AT guns, as well as Soviet Artillery weapons like the B4 and Soviet Howitzer.

Since there are what, 5 Soviet Commanders who have artillery abilities, I find that the aerial+stuka combo of Jaeger Armor hard counters no less than 5 Soviet Artillery commanders, throw in the spotting scopes, riegels and Elefant, and you can take on a whole crap ton of Soviet Commanders and have hard counters for whatever they're throwing at you.

I often find 2 panthers equipped with spotting scopes to provide plenty of AT for a round thats gone into lategame, since the Panther really benefits from the scope and being able to take long range shots at enemy armor that it can see, but the enemy can not see you. Elefant is more of a team game weapon, I couldn't imagine too many 1v1's requiring an Elefant unless facing some serious tank spam in a round that's lasted more than 30 minutes or so.

What doctrine are you picking? Helps if you have Stuka AT strafe too. Really it takes combined arms to drop those tanks, especially if they're supported.

For a general purpose commander with some late game punch, right now I've been picking Lightning War Doctrine. Best $3 I ever spent. Comes with the Tiger AND Stuka AT strafe, and I was playing around with Stuka AT strafe and I believe he also targets and easily destroys soviet artillery pieces as well as their tanks, light vehicles and infantry and support weapons.

You need Teller Mines, Riegels if you can pick a doctrine with those are better since they immobilize, AT guns like Pak40's or Pak43 with a shotblock in front if you're using a doctrine, Stuka AT Strafe can help finish them off if you've already damaged their engine and the enemy doesn't have too much Anti-Aircraft weaponry, schreck squads to attack the flanks, or a well placed Pak40, but for me the centerpiece of taking on these heavies is a vetted Panther. IMO a vet 2/3 Panther is better for killing tanks overall than a vetted Tiger, it at least has some decent range on it's main gun (Yes I know TIger gets a range buff at vet2, haven't played with too many vet2 tigers though considering how much shit you gotta kill to get it to vet2).

Personally i find a StuG + paks works really well vs IS2's (target weakpoint is a must).

ISU is abit more tricky especially if its flanks are well covered. I would suggest taking note of what commander your enemy likely is before choosing a doctrine if he has this on his bar (especially the one with guard rifles and marked target). Where a pak 43 will not help you due to IL2 bombs.

Panzer 4's can counter this if its un-supported however if it is supported by ZIS's mines and guards (which can button flanking tanks and lose you them) I really would recommend having an elefant commander on your loadout just incase.