USF Pack Howitzer

Pros and cons. Scott is extremely vulnerable to AT of the lightest variety.

And the Scott also isnt in a ball punching fuel sapping Tier.

Pros and cons. Scott is worth it, pack howitzer not.

if the pack howitzer is balanced the soviet heavy mortar must be pretty OP.

if the pack howitzer is balanced the soviet heavy mortar must be pretty OP.

And with this, we have fuel for a couple more pages

Basing this off of solely 2v2s (but some of these points could arguably apply to larger team games), I would say that the USF Pack Howitzer is incredibly lackluster at the moment. Although I personally find it more useful and effective than the OKW Infantry Support Gun, I would say that the mere fact that teching up to the Captain is significantly more expensive than the Lieutenant, and is less viable due to the fact that (based off of what I generally do/see) most players go either tier 2 or tier 3, and then head directly to tier 4 (the Major). The Pack Howitzer is exceptional in terms of auto-fire capabilities (most of the OKW Infantry Support Gun’s prowess are derived from utilizing the manual barrage abilities (including when it receives its veterancy and respective perks from it), but the mere fact that when players like me go USF, they usually like to rush the Lieutenant (I aim to do so 2 – 3 minutes into the match) and build a quick M20 to counter early-game Axis suppression units. I generally can’t afford to go all additional tiers, unless I want to delay or have one less armored vehicle on the field (which can be extremely detrimental, especially since Axis late-game is where the enemy truly shines). If I am not mistaken, it is the only USF team weapon that has a six-man crew (opposed to the OKW, which has no six-man team weapons), which I believe is a paramount factor to its survivability on the field. Besides the fact that I heavily advocate the revamp of the entire teching system (pricing and initiation time) for COH2 as a whole, I think that a short-term fix could possibly be decreasing the build-cost of the USF Pack Howitzer (and potentially its reinforcement price if necessary), decreasing its crew size to four (or potentially five) men, and possibly tweaking the veterancy perks for the OKW Infantry Support Gun, so that they both scale well the entire duration of their usage as their intended role (an indirect support weapon). If anybody would like to agree/disagree, and elaborate to why, feel more than free.

if the pack howitzer is balanced the soviet heavy mortar must be pretty OP.

I would like to constructively provide feedback and disagree with your analogy. I think that the USF Pack Howitzer is pretty underpowered, but the Soviet Heavy Mortar is the exact opposite, and is pretty broken right now. Yeah, for the most part, the commanders it's available on are either "OK", "Meh", and/or "Mediocre", and it is arguably of a hefty price for initial deployment, it is a beast on the battlefield. At Veterancy Level 1, it receives the precision strike ability, which pretty much will wreck any static defense (flak emplacement, garrisoned unit(s), artillery pieces, stationary team weapons, and etc...) and is pretty much the most annoying team weapon to decrew, due to the sole fact that it is the only mortar in the game that you need to wipe EVERY SINGLE team member of. The mortar itself is amazing (in terms of its actual performance I could see that it is somewhat "balanced"), but unless they make it wipeable after losing its fifth crew member, or all other support pieces receive the same mechanic, I would say it is hardly "UP" and/or "Balanced".

if the pack howitzer is balanced the soviet heavy mortar must be pretty OP.

I'm afraid you might have waken inner jaigens in some people with that one line.

If I am not mistaken, it is the only USF team weapon that has a six-man crew (opposed to the OKW, which has no six-man team weapons), which I believe is a paramount factor to its survivability on the field. Besides the fact that I heavily advocate the revamp of the entire teching system (pricing and initiation time) for COH2 as a whole, I think that a short-term fix could possibly be decreasing the build-cost of the USF Pack Howitzer (and potentially its reinforcement price if necessary), decreasing its crew size to four (or potentially five) men, and possibly tweaking the veterancy perks for the OKW Infantry Support Gun, so that they both scale well the entire duration of their usage as their intended role (an indirect support weapon). If anybody would like to agree/disagree, and elaborate to why, feel more than free.

It has 6 men but needs at least 3 to function. Which means it effectively has 4 crew since if it drops below 3 it will automatically be decrewed. Reducing it's men would make it extremely vulnerable to even a single hit. It also provides no cover for the models.

My guess is that no one in this thread has really played with the Pack Howitzer enough to know if it is actually good or not but actually called it in less than five times, tried to put it really far forward on the battlefield and forgot about it then got mad when it got wiped by a single infantry unit.

Talk of crew size is moot since you shouldn't EVER be losing models from it if played correctly. (edit) because it should always be close to your Ambulance and Major to help vet him up.

The REAL thing that would help this unit is swapping it back to its pre-WFA release spot: in Lt. tier swapped with the .50 HMG

My guess is that no one in this thread has really played with the Pack Howitzer enough to know if it is actually good or not but actually called it in less than five times, tried to put it really far forward on the battlefield and forgot about it then got mad when it got wiped by a single infantry unit.

Talk of crew size is moot since you shouldn't EVER be losing models from it if played correctly.

It's decent, just needs maybe a few minor changes, not like crazy buffs. It's an ATG that blast infantry.

I've been playing around with the AE and here's are my thoughts on possible changes:

Pack Howitzer
-Reload from 7.2/6.5 to 6.5/6.0 for auto-attack
-Angle Scatter from 9 to 8.
-Cost from 480mp to 440 MP
-Fixed crew reinforce modifer. Should be halved like most other units.

No need to tune AOE, tune squad formations.

Here is a replay of a match with, hopefully, solid Pack Howi play all the way up to vet 3.

My guess is that no one in this thread has really played with the Pack Howitzer enough to know if it is actually good or not but actually called it in less than five times, tried to put it really far forward on the battlefield and forgot about it then got mad when it got wiped by a single infantry unit.

Talk of crew size is moot since you shouldn't EVER be losing models from it if played correctly. (edit) because it should always be close to your Ambulance and Major to help vet him up.

The REAL thing that would help this unit is swapping it back to its pre-WFA release spot: in Lt. tier swapped with the .50 HMG

i keep trying, moving it constant so it is close to the frontline, have it stay back and use barrage on further units.

crew size is a big thing. just because you know the principle of how to use moveable indirect fire does not mean they are not prone to wipes even when used correctly.

always close to ambulance? that is the principle i go against out of pure logic. perfect target for mortars or even better, stuka zu fuss?

i will watch the replay and try to learn. i will never give up.

i saw the replay. umm. ost mortar total kills 30, pack 36. not really impressive.

only reason why ost mort did "worse" is because pack howi was not the target for axis, unlike how ost mort was to you.

As I said on the replay it is not the best representation, merely an example.

One big thing about Pack Howi is, the bigger the game the better it scales due to mega blobs and allies granting more vision.

Also I will say again, pack howi kills do not correlate to the amount of damage it is doing in a match at all. I won't even call one in if both players are OSTH because I consider its primary role to be an anti-OKW Hq truck tool.

idk. im just wondering if 480mp is worth it when 240mp counterpart is only marginally worse on paper and actually do better most time in real game.

the best thing is when you use the HEAT barrage and it penetrates the a king tiger twice in a row

idk. im just wondering if 480mp is worth it when 240mp counterpart is only marginally worse on paper and actually do better most time in real game.

Range and AOE are they key here. If the axis are making multiple setup teams or an aggresive truck you can pound on them with the Pack Howi.

Some games I literally have the Pak Howie wipe 5-10 sqauds, while other games it barely gets 5 kills.

You have to be Lucky for it to actually be effective, like most indirect fire weapons I guess. Its just it costs an arm and a leg and is in captain tier, which makes it unfavourable.

Some games I literally have the Pak Howie wipe 5-10 sqauds, while other games it barely gets 5 kills.

You have to be Lucky for it to actually be effective, like most indirect fire weapons I guess. Its just it costs an arm and a leg and is in captain tier, which makes it unfavourable.

I think you nailed it here with "unfavorable." It's not under-powered, it's simply inconvenient due to its cost and tier. Swap it with the .50 hmg like it was in beta for some interesting USf play imo.

Range and AOE are they key here. If the axis are making multiple setup teams or an aggresive truck you can pound on them with the Pack Howi.

Point is, you cant if you went for ltn. As Axis you will always have chance to get mortar. As OKW you always get med truck. And as Soviets you need T2 almost always. Only US Forces are struggling with shit tier design.