In Game Store???

A CoHO style store and supply system in CoH2....

Maybe Relic figures that at this point with CoH2...any change would be an improvement.

It's literally CoHO all over again.

Aww yea panzershreks pios HERE I COME!!!

I already did that. Still would do a 2 with a friend anytime over that.

That you call then, i respect it.

I read a lot of unhappy statements and this makes me wonder if anything Relic do will ever make this community happy. I mean 2 years of CoH2 and some people still think they haven't gotten they're monies worth. Really? Are you serious?

TBH I find it appalling that gamers of this day and age think that a company the size of relic can survive through a 5 year plan and only release the initial game and then sit around making free expansions and patches for no money just to make the community happy.

I agree the game in it's current state is to be frowned upon, but for anyone that does more than just play the game, for anyone that looks into the files, can code, makes mods, maps, 3D modelling, all these things show that the game has great potential. Having one of theses skills can often give you a different view on things as you can see the way things are designed and the idea behind the way they currently operate.

So what if it goes F2P (yes there are dozens of downsides) how does this affect what you spent 2 years ago. You want a game that you can purchase and never have to pay another cent? You might have to go back in time and find another title that's not played online. Because in this day and ages there is rarely a game that you will NEVER pay another cent for.

I'd say it's about time this community relaxed and gave relic a chance to do they're work and release it before deciding whether its good or not, could you imagine what would happen if they read threads like this and scrapped the whole project. Warspoils would stay the same the game would stay the same.

Sometimes I think it's not actually Relic that's too scared to change CoH2. Times like this make me realize it's more how scared the community is of see they're beloved title change even if it is for the better. Too scared to take the chance of it getting worse to find out if what Relic's planning is better than what we currently have.

Aww yea panzershreks pios HERE I COME!!!

Fatherland MGs, surely?

yeah!

if the company was only good as its community members...

vcoh master race foreva...

raising money to make 5 year plan possible = dirty capitalist...

not saying relic is doing a fine job but, lets be more than just cynical teenagers on internet, which is a trend now.

OK I guess I was a bit too harsh.
But IMO it is relics fault for not doing anything with the community but saying how excited they are. It's just a slap in the face waiting over 6 months for a patch without any tiny bit of information.

Ok i want this to be good i really do and i know this might be the only way to turn coh2 into a profitable game in the long run, but Relic has done screw up after screw up with every project since the original company of heroes. I mean look at dow2! Holy shit talk about missed opportunity. So my gut feeling it will be a disaster. Sry Relic but you need to prove me wrong

It has nothing to do with them trying to make money and everything to do with how they're trying to make money. There are a lot of proven ways to monetize your game that have zero impact on the actual gameplay.

By monetizing commanders with unique units and abilities, Relic is letting players pay for more options. If you're trying to compete in a strategy game, having more options is an advantage, so by letting players pay for more options, they're indirectly letting players pay for a strategic advantage in their games.

Now let's pretend Relic implements the CoHO shop system. We have no idea if they will or not, but let's just pretend they do. Suddenly your commanders and bulletins only last a few games before you have to repair them with supply. That's fine and dandy until you realize that your super fancy King Tiger costs more supply to repair than you receive for free after each game. Suddenly you're faced with a decision: do I remove my King Tiger every few games and accept playing with inferior units, or do I pay Relic a few bucks for the privilege of continuing to be able to use this unit in every single game?

Now if you're a casual player who picks up the game every once in a while, that system is fine. But if you're even remotely inclined to play your strategy games competitively, or if you're playing in a tournament or other competition, you want access to the best units possible so that you can have the best chance to win. That means you either have to pay up or accept that you'll be at an inherent disadvantage before the game even starts if you happen to play against someone who's willing to spend money when you aren't.

Don't you see how that's a problem? Now you're directly paying for an in-game advantage over someone who isn't willing to spend extra money for the game. It's not about people feeling entitled or being cheap or any of that bullshit, it's about the developers putting their business model before gameplay integrity. That's a middle finger to the subset of the community which actually takes the game seriously, which is much of the game's most dedicated fans and the target audience of this forum, hence the resistance to these sorts of endeavours.

When Relic charged people for the WFA factions, nobody bitched. When Relic charged for a new single-player campaign in AA, nobody bitched. When Relic charged for new ToW missions, nobody bitched. When Relic added new skins and faceplates and victory strikes and decals, nobody bitched. Why? Because these all make perfect sense to charge for, and they don't affect the integrity of the gameplay. But when you charge for things like commanders that give players unique gameplay options, or when you (potentially) implement a system that forces players to pay in order to consistently use their best units and abilities, you fuck over those people who want to compete without getting nickle-and-dimed to death. In other words, you fuck over a lot of the people who frequent these boards.

Change is great; I don't think you'll find many people who don't think CoH2 needs to change if it's going to improve. But adding the CoHO shop system to CoH2 isn't a good change; it's a disaster to anyone who cares about playing this game even remotely seriously. And it's a whole lot easier to spot something like this while it's in the development phase than when it's already been coded and released. Why would you just blindly assume something is going to be great, especially when it comes from a company with a track record like Relic's? There's nothing wrong with being skeptical and taking issue with the direction Relic appears to be taking the game based on the information we have.

It has nothing to do with them trying to make money and everything to do with how they're trying to make money. There are a lot of proven ways to monetize your game that have zero impact on the actual gameplay.

By monetizing commanders with unique units and abilities, Relic is letting players pay for more options. If you're trying to compete in a strategy game, having more options is an advantage, so by letting players pay for more options, they're indirectly letting players pay for a strategic advantage in their games.

Now let's pretend Relic implements the CoHO shop system. We have no idea if they will or not, but let's just pretend they do. Suddenly your commanders and bulletins only last a few games before you have to repair them with supply. That's fine and dandy until you realize that your super fancy King Tiger costs more supply to repair than you receive for free after each game. Suddenly you're faced with a decision: do I remove my King Tiger every few games and accept playing with inferior units, or do I pay Relic a few bucks for the privilege of continuing to be able to use this unit in every single game?

Now if you're a casual player who picks up the game every once in a while, that system is fine. But if you're even remotely inclined to play your strategy games competitively, or if you're playing in a tournament or other competition, you want access to the best units possible so that you can have the best chance to win. That means you either have to pay up or accept that you'll be at an inherent disadvantage before the game even starts if you happen to play against someone who's willing to spend money when you aren't.

Don't you see how that's a problem? Now you're directly paying for an in-game advantage over someone who isn't willing to spend extra money for the game. It's not about people feeling entitled or being cheap or any of that bullshit, it's about the developers putting their business model before gameplay integrity. That's a middle finger to the subset of the community which actually takes the game seriously, which is much of the game's most dedicated fans and the target audience of this forum, hence the resistance to these sorts of endeavours.

When Relic charged people for the WFA factions, nobody bitched. When Relic charged for a new single-player campaign in AA, nobody bitched. When Relic charged for new ToW missions, nobody bitched. When Relic added new skins and faceplates and victory strikes and decals, nobody bitched. Why? Because these all make perfect sense to charge for, and they don't affect the integrity of the gameplay. But when you charge for things like commanders that give players unique gameplay options, or when you (potentially) implement a system that forces players to pay in order to consistently use their best units and abilities, you fuck over those people who want to compete without getting nickle-and-dimed to death. In other words, you fuck over a lot of the people who frequent these boards.

Change is great; I don't think you'll find many people who don't think CoH2 needs to change if it's going to improve. But adding the CoHO shop system to CoH2 isn't a good change; it's a disaster to anyone who cares about playing this game even remotely seriously. And it's a whole lot easier to spot something like this while it's in the development phase than when it's already been coded and released. Why would you just blindly assume something is going to be great, especially when it comes from a company with a track record like Relic's? There's nothing wrong with being skeptical and taking issue with the direction Relic appears to be taking the game based on the information we have.

Nice text for sure.

But you are extrapolate on the premises that they won't do it right.

If they do as you say, i won't play it either. But something tell me that they will learn from their previous mistakes and this time design it the right way.

Let hope they do, else the future is grim for COH2.

As i said previously, it would seem normal to spend around 20-30 box (CAD$) during the course of a year of play to help them support the game. Especially true if someone play 10- 20 hours or more a weeks.

But not on stuff that make winning easier, but on stuff that add variety to gameplay.

You point is well understood, can you understand mine ?

There needs to be a reason for players to stick around and grind games in coh2. Thats how modern online gaming is nowadays. Games that don't use this concept will plummet in playernumbers because other games are pulling them in. 10k active players is not really good when you are supposed to be one of the leading RTS developer. So yeah thats why i understand the need for them to work on some kind of system to keep players coming back to the game other than just having fun.

Ofcourse i think there are some elegant solutions to keep pleople grinding games with a supply system without going pay-to-win. It is just a matter how gready Relic wants to be. As i said Relic has done shitty work ever since coh1 so im sceptical.

Paying to "add variety to gameplay" is the same as paying for an advantage, just not as direct. Having more gameplay options in an RTS is an inherent advantage. Paying for new factions is one thing, but paying to make an existing faction more robust is an entirely different situation.

You shouldn't have to pay a cent in order to ensure you're on an even playing field with your opponent.

There needs to be a reason for players to stick around and grind games in coh2. Thats how modern online gaming is nowadays. Games that don't use this concept will plummet in playernumbers because other games are pulling them in. 10k active players is not really good when you are supposed to be one of the leading RTS developer. So yeah thats why i understand the need for them to work on some kind of system to keep players coming back to the game other than just having fun.

You're right, they need something. But they need something that will preserve gameplay integrity at the same time. A system that is extremely detrimental to your most dedicated players is not the answer.

The passion has died....not the the players.

It's not the same as it used to be, BIG EVENTs organizzed by the community, casters, top players, ESL and so on...just doesn't feel the same, like I said...the hearth of the community is dead and the rest will fall soon.

PS;. I do play the game myself (almost daily) that's how I got this decadence feeling. Why? Because I love COH2.

Edit: And when dudes came and get wet with their theory crafting about the future I just can't stand it (same apply to "balance experts")

Look on all these forum wars about "nerf this" "buff that".
People are really passionate about this game.

When Relic charged people for the WFA factions, nobody bitched. When Relic charged for a new single-player campaign in AA, nobody bitched. When Relic charged for new ToW missions, nobody bitched. When Relic added new skins and faceplates and victory strikes and decals, nobody bitched. Why? Because these all make perfect sense to charge for, and they don't affect the integrity of the gameplay. But when you charge for things like commanders that give players unique gameplay options, or when you (potentially) implement a system that forces players to pay in order to consistently use their best units and abilities, you fuck over those people who want to compete without getting nickle-and-dimed to death. In other words, you fuck over a lot of the people who frequent these boards.

Actually players bitched IMO. A lot. But that is not players Relic should listen to.

Paying to "add variety to gameplay" is the same as paying for an advantage, just not as direct. Having more gameplay options in an RTS is an inherent advantage. Paying for new factions is one thing, but paying to make an existing faction more robust is an entirely different situation.

You shouldn't have to pay a cent in order to ensure you're on an even playing field with your opponent.


You're right, they need something. But they need something that will preserve gameplay integrity at the same time. A system that is extremely detrimental to your most dedicated players is not the answer.

We think the same, no need to have some semantic swordplay. No pay to win that it. But pay something to play during the course a year of gameplay and 30 CAD is not that much if the game is good.

Look at hearthstone, it a real free to play for me. They can easily adapt something around that financial design. I gave them 10 USD and i'm playing it since the beginning.

We can split the game design from the financial design, but both need to be successful for a game to last.

If they would add something close to the VCOH command system wouldn't it be great ?

People are really passionate about this game.

True. I personally still think the situation is salvagable for CoH2. It's just that everyone has a different opinion and nobody at Relic seemingly has a bearing on where to head next.

On a related note, please join the discussion in this thread as I feel these are important, simple but important, changes that will go a long way in fixing the game. I mean everyone, not you specifically. I would like to get as many opinions of this as I can, as chances are, if these get enough support, Relic will do something about them. Who knows right?

I will add this because it's a dimension we haven't touch yet.

Gaming hardware. To be really competitive even on a computer game, we need to spent some cash on hardware.

How many of us won't play a game if the game can't run at 60fps ?

If you don't have a good mouse or a screen that can see all the shade of gray ? e.t.c

Is there any popular sport, e-sport or game left where money spent on it or on the hardware support it don't have any importance or impact ?

Please name it so we can analyse it ?

Thanks !

Paying to "add variety to gameplay" is the same as paying for an advantage, just not as direct. Having more gameplay options in an RTS is an inherent advantage. Paying for new factions is one thing, but paying to make an existing faction more robust is an entirely different situation.

i dont follow. has it not always been like this? you had to pay to stay competetive in coh. in coh1, you had to pay for opposing front to use new armys. later you had to pay if you wanted to use new TOV units like the schwimmwagen or kangeroo. in coh2 you had to pay for new commanders and you had to pay to get the new armys.

if a new system get implemented the basict fact that from time to time you can spend some money to widen your options in the game and to enhance your chances of winning stays basicly the same.
of course there are changes in detail and we still have to see if and how it plays out. maybe it will get more expansive to stay competetive. maybe top players never have to pay a dime because they win a lot in automatch and so get rewarded a big amount of free supply. i dont see any reason to object a "play for free but pay for extra content approach" in general.

in one way or another - someone has to pay for a game that gets support. thats just the way it is and you have to pay for balance relevant core gameplay options because faceplates and skins just wont make real money.

one aspect of warspoils /cohonline that has not been discussed widely holds a much bigger threat to competitive gameplay in my opinion. in the current warspoil system as back in the days in cohonline there are items that will help your gameplay but that are not for sale. now that is just stupid in my opinion and i dont want to see it further implemented in coh2.

some commanders in coh2 can not be purchased in a shop but drop randomly after playing a game. same in cohonline: you simply could not buy the sprinting mg with the rocketlauncher (or any other hero unit if i remember it right) - you had to wait for it to come to you. after you had it, you could spend cash on keeping it active.

what i dont want to see are items in a game that you can only get by chance and that are not for sale.

this is how it should be in my opinion:
- the better players should be rewarded for their skill and effort by so much free supply that they should not have to pay real money (maybe as a reward for certain a ladder position).
- the casual player should not be forced to buy anything if he does not mind playing with fewer options.
- the eager but lazy player should be able to purchase anything there is in the game with cash.
- the eager but cheap player should be able to get anything there is by grinding.

Hey Relic, if you're reading this, can you sell Victory Strikes in the game store? Thank you.

Hey Relic, if you're reading this, can you sell Victory Strikes in the game store? Thank you.

I think you'll find that Victory Strikes will be included in the mystery item packs. So you'll have a good chance of coming across one sooner or later.

I think you'll find that Victory Strikes will be included in the mystery item packs. So you'll have a good chance of coming across one sooner or later.

we want more LEAKS sir Mirage.