Nerf Greyhound Canister Shot

I am normally not that kind of guy doing such threads, but:

The Greyhound Canister Shot is OP as gardening hell! Nerf it... No, just remove it!

Simple and plain.

Reasons:

• Squad wipe potential 95%
  
• super cheap unit
  
• unit comes way to early to provide such firepower
  
• greyhound has already pretty good AI capabilities for its cost and timing
  
• low ability cost (gardening joke!)
  

And dont the garden come with the argument its sooooo fragile. Yeah, you know, all other light vehicles are also fragile and dont come even close to the garden this unit does with this fail-in-design-and-balance ability.

I looked up the the game stats and the used weapon "only" does 40 damage, which means 50% health of most infantry. Problems seems to be that the by genius design this ability was given "ballistic" damage which has a neat 100% chance of insta-gibing soldiers below 50% health.
NICE ONE!

Seriously, has this crap ever been used/tested before it got released?

Regards
ace

P.S. Oh, yes, I am pissed. That don't hapen very often, but when I usually got a gardening reason.

This discussion again. We always come to the same conclusion buff gun, nerf canister. It's the t34 ram thing all over again.

The greyhound without the canister shot is entirely worthless. It's worse than a Stuart, maybe even arguably the m20 due to such a low rof and charmin soft armour. Regarding the shot itself: cost wise it isn't much different than a grenade, unless you clump of course, not to mention shreks can almost fire twice before it even gets in range and that's if the turret is facing the right direction; god help a US commander if it has to traverse 0.47 degrees...

It isn't cheap when 40 fuel is potentially delaying a Sherman by 3 minutes and it comes after a m20, before a AAHT and after the Stuart, for it to be of any practical use IMO it needs to arrive earlier. The reason why the Stuart/CS was so deadly in CoH1 was because if you played flawlessly it would arrive before shreks or in or around the same time as a pak. As it is now, it arrives at a time where it's life expectancy is basically nowt.

haha, i remember playing you.

i loved it.

on a serious note tho, i think its balanced. its pretty much the only thing you get this vehicle for, and its the best thing in that doctrine.

it also costs 40 fuel and is hardcountered by either a puma or scoutcar as its maingun is absolute shit vs vehicles.

The greyhound without the canister shot is entirely worthless. It's worse than a Stuart, maybe even arguably the m20 due to such a low rof and charmin soft armour. Regarding the shot itself: cost wise it isn't much different than a grenade, unless you clump of course, not to mention shreks can almost fire twice before it even gets in range and that's if the turret is facing the right direction; god help a US commander if it has to traverse 0.47 degrees...

It isn't cheap when 40 fuel is potentially delaying a Sherman by 3 minutes and it comes after a m20, before a AAHT and after the Stuart, for it to be of any practical use IMO it needs to arrive earlier. The reason why the Stuart/CS was so deadly in CoH1 was because if you played flawlessly it would arrive before shreks or in or around the same time as a pak. As it is now, it arrives at a time where it's life expectancy is basically nowt.

Amazing reason to justify keeping it a squad wiper. The unit is broken, people only use it to drive up, wipe a squad and drive away. This thing will wipe several squads a match especially during the critical early game, paying for itself several times over. Its bullshit needs a nerf.

This discussion again. We always come to the same conclusion buff gun, nerf canister. It's the t34 ram thing all over again.

we had a 5(?) page thread last month that repeated the above several times. it's in the trello. go bomb relic/sega hq and maybe they'll fix it.

haha, i remember playing you.

i loved it.

on a serious note tho, i think its balanced. its pretty much the only thing you get this vehicle for, and its the best thing in that doctrine.

it also costs 40 fuel and is hardcountered by either a puma or scoutcar as its maingun is absolute shit vs vehicles.

This:

Amazing reason to justify keeping it a squad wiper. The unit is broken, people only use it to drive up, wipe a squad and drive away. This thing will wipe several squads a match especially during the critical early game, paying for itself several times over. Its bullshit needs a nerf.

And yeah, it costs fuel... it's a vehicle. Last time I checked all vehicles cost fuel. The SdKfz 250 call ins cast 40, do they have an ability to insta kill squads?
And seriously, countered by a Puma? You really telling that? A Puma costs almost twice the fuel, buddy.

Useless unit in team games and useless commander.
I meet this commander only in one game and greyhound die in two hit from shrecks, before can shot.

Amazing reason to justify keeping it a squad wiper. The unit is broken, people only use it to drive up, wipe a squad and drive away. This thing will wipe several squads a match especially during the critical early game, paying for itself several times over. Its bullshit needs a nerf.

I wasn't arguing one way or another. My argument was that it isn't as OP as ace4sure believes. I'm agreeing that it's broken in my post, and to address your response: it can wipe squads, (not in the early game) but it often won't because:

1. the aim is janky.
2. it has no armour.
3. the range is poor.

and regarding it's equity, in the occasion it does wipe say... 2, squads, there are good odds it isn't going to live, for 280mp, it's only doubling it's already poor efficiency, excluding the fuel.

To expand my position: I would love to see the M8 be better overall, not talking about the canister, like make it worth while without it, and add some more appeal to my favourite commander.

To expand my position: I would love to see the M8 be better overall, not talking about the canister, like make it worth while without it, and add some more appeal to my favourite commander.

As do most people, the canister shot is in definite need of a nerf though as well as rebalancing of the vehicle of itself. But ya know its just another balance fix added to the pile of other fixes needed that relic has been so good at putting off. Bonus points if they can actually fix what needs to be done right the first time.

Did you guys read the part about the ballistic damage or do you just dont understand it?

um, it actually wipes any infantry it hits, regardless of health.

Did you guys read the part about the ballistic damage or do you just dont understand it?

No, as someone who played CoH1 and has fond memories of the canister round punishing blobs/rushing HQ's after forcing a retreat; the thought of a unit with the CS not being able to gib is about as unthinkable as riding a wheelchair into combat, which is what the greyhound would become unless, as you don't seem to be reading our responses: the unit is reworked.

No, as someone who played CoH1 and has fond memories of the canister round punishing blobs/rushing HQ's after forcing a retreat; the thought of a unit with the CS not being able to gib is about as unthinkable as riding a wheelchair into combat, which is what the greyhound would become unless, as you don't seem to be reading our responses: the unit is reworked.

But its not punishing blobs, its simply wiping a single, complete squad. Your reference failed.

As you admit you have no clue what I am talking about when refering to the damage type and the crit tables that are associated with it, why do you even reply?

I call it stupid design by mechanic. How do you think you can counter argument this if you dont even get what I am telling!?

But its not punishing blobs, its simply wiping a single, complete squad. Your reference failed.

As you admit you have no clue what I am talking about when refering to the damage type and the crit tables that are associated with it, why do you even reply?

I call it stupid design by mechanic. How do you think you can counter argument this if you dont even get what I am telling!?

what? damage type? ehm yeah. crit tables? where could one find them? not to be a jerk here, but do you even know what youre talking about? it does kill any infantry it damages, and thats it

But its not punishing blobs, its simply wiping a single, complete squad. Your reference failed.

As you admit you have no clue what I am talking about when refering to the damage type and the crit tables that are associated with it, why do you even reply?

I call it stupid design by mechanic. How do you think you can counter argument this if you dont even get what I am telling!?

I agreed with your opening statement in the previous posts. I've fully understood what you said, you want the CS gone, because of its ability to wipe, my response addresses the alternative, what if it all the CS did was the "40 damage, which means 50% health of most infantry." it would be even more worthless.

I Love how heated forums can get,, Jesus . I'm pretty sure everyone can agree that something need to be done to the greyhound (rework) , so I don't understand the hostility directed at ''turbotortoise'' you don't need to know every little statistic to say something is over-performing or under performing, because it shows for itself . He was agreeing with you that it needed to be reworked btw and not nerfed into another ''su-76''

As an Avid greyhound user, I agree that its a squad wiping machine, but that's its only use, lets be real, unless you can get it too vet 3 and drive it out, it losses all its worth.

[that exp could have gone to a unit that would live on and not get 2 shoted (3 if upgraded for 70 muni)]

I personaly find it amusing that a 210-15-fuel 55-muni can beat (3cp call-in) 280 mp, 40 fuel and needs a 70 munition upgrade to fight back (its for balance and timings but I still laugh )

I find ost has more problems to dealing with the greyhound then OKW, for a few reasons,
1- it can base rape ost if unprepared
2- every unit they have is a 4 man squad
3- if your cut off from fuel for almost any duration you wont have a counter out in time.

as for okw, its just a nuisance lets be honest, any armour okw can field will be able to hold its own or out right kill it, and there infantry are better off considering there main inf, have shrecks, By the time the greyhound comes out there counters for it,
if you rush out a puma you can get it out before an AA halftrack, the greyhound comes out later then a Stuart..

The grey hound has half the dmg per shot from the gun, and has to be upgraded to survive. The only reason to build the thing is for the OP canister shot


here is some other threads that you might have missed

http://www.coh2.org/topic/20640/greyhound%C2%B4s-canister-shot

http://www.coh2.org/topic/21786/m8-greyhound

Useless unit in team games and useless commander.
I meet this commander only in one game and greyhound die in two hit from shrecks, before can shot.

It's the second best USF commander in the game behind airborne. The IR artillery call in is the one of the best and cheapest artillery call in's. They greyhound is a squad wipe machine that's also fast. The 2 airborne squads + AT gun are also very nice. The sighting you get for your riflemen makes early game recon extremely easy.

Really there's not a single thing in the commander that's "bad", I find myself taking it a lot in 2's as USF.

This discussion again. We always come to the same conclusion buff gun, nerf canister. It's the t34 ram thing all over again.

Doesn't anyone else appreciate the incredible sight it gets at Vet 2 / 3? I usually try to get a few canisters in just to vet it up and then use it only for recon for the rest of the game.