If there are two things I have yet to see any benefit from as US, it's the 50 cal and the 240 howie.
Hints and advice appreciated because I just can't seem to make them worth while at all.
50 cal: What a slow fire rate and what a reload time. On top on that it seems to supress almost nothing and certainly gets almost no kills with zero veterancy. With a 4 man crew it's a sitting duck IMO, but what do YOU do with it?
240mm howie (off-map): for 250 ammo, I'd expect something that really wrecks up things. But what I see is a whoosh-whoosh cloud which is tremendously unprecise, has a long, long delay and which does barely any damage to hard targets. And if I look at the actual impact points, it has almost no splash damage. One thing I wonder is: do I need to have the target zone under observation all the time for better effect? And for it to work at all because it seems sometimes it only fires one volley. Or none at all, but happily takes the 250 ammo off my stock.
Advice on 50 cal and 240 mm?
19 Feb 2015, 18:32 PM
#1
Posts: 688
'There's honour in victory, honour in defeat and honour in just staying alive'.
[Quote from Wings Reel]
[Quote from Wings Reel]
19 Feb 2015, 18:45 PM
#2
Posts: 440
i used it one time just send it to Ambulance OKW base and did't see what happen because it not my fight but the Opponent player he screaming im wipe out his 6 ober damm im lock replay folder want too see that scene so much
but we losing anyway in that match
but we losing anyway in that match
19 Feb 2015, 19:09 PM
#3
5 Posts: 104
Agreed with the MG, it is neither good at suppression or damage. Early game a unit of riflemen is better at countering infantry, and late game a scott or (my favourite) AA ht is far better at dealing with blobs. It doesn't even get AP rounds to help against light armour. Not sure if there are any tips that can be given for it personally.
The arty thing also is a bit rubbish for what its cost is and the fact that it can't be called in on a base sector. It does however deny a big area for a fair time. It's most useful for calling in on OKW truck groups, rarely hits and destroys the truck but it will seriously wreck anything trying to defend them. Never had it seem to not fire all it's shells though.
Here's a replay where OKW had the perfect little sim-city to use it on, 2nd barrage gets some nice hits.
The arty thing also is a bit rubbish for what its cost is and the fact that it can't be called in on a base sector. It does however deny a big area for a fair time. It's most useful for calling in on OKW truck groups, rarely hits and destroys the truck but it will seriously wreck anything trying to defend them. Never had it seem to not fire all it's shells though.
Here's a replay where OKW had the perfect little sim-city to use it on, 2nd barrage gets some nice hits.
19 Feb 2015, 20:46 PM
#4
Posts: 6
50cal is a very good HHG, decent supression and pretty nice damage ....
A single 50. ofc won't stop a blob .....
A single 50. ofc won't stop a blob .....
19 Feb 2015, 23:10 PM
#5
Posts: 1283 | Subs: 4
my advice? skip it. if you're itching for a suppression platform in a pinch, why not give the fighting position a go? 60muni and what, 190mp? for heavy cover a decent mg and rifle nades to flush squads from cover and something to draw fire away from your squads. seems better to me.
20 Feb 2015, 08:37 AM
#6
Posts: 688
50cal is a very good HHG, decent supression and pretty nice damage ....
A single 50. ofc won't stop a blob .....
'A very good'??? Show me the numbers because otherwise that's just opinionated.
Actually I searched for the weapon stats, but failed to find them. Link, anyone?
And don't get too hot on the blob thing. That's not the question here. I'd be happy if it could supress even a single squad before it loses 2 crew members.
my advice? skip it. if you're itching for a suppression platform in a pinch, why not give the fighting position a go? 60muni and what, 190mp? for heavy cover a decent mg and rifle nades to flush squads from cover and something to draw fire away from your squads. seems better to me.
Yes, 160 mp and 60 muni for the emplacement gives you an MG that supresses much, much better. As good as the german ditto IMO. The only problem is that it's stationary and has Card board armour (unlike its german counterpart).
So you really need to be prepared to sacrifice those 160 mp plus 60 ammo for that kind of solution.
This is where - for every of the other factions - the HMG offers you flexibility by allowing you to deploy and redeploy which gives completely different tactical options.
'There's honour in victory, honour in defeat and honour in just staying alive'.
[Quote from Wings Reel]
[Quote from Wings Reel]
20 Feb 2015, 09:01 AM
#7
Posts: 380
50 cal is good, really? Yeah, it have a good suppression power, but crew is dying from single rifle granade or ober's sniper mg34 fire. It is need a really good buff in crew I think.
20 Feb 2015, 11:59 AM
#8
Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1
.50 cal is a offensive weapon that need to be used with Rifles. It's a good investment if you don't have enough munitions to equip BARs or want to preserve your fuel.
It requires a bit of micro and as any USF unit, die fast.
Other deadly combo is couple with a scott like a Mg42/mortar combo.
Do not expect it to hold a sector for you. it hasn't been design for it.
It requires a bit of micro and as any USF unit, die fast.
Other deadly combo is couple with a scott like a Mg42/mortar combo.
Do not expect it to hold a sector for you. it hasn't been design for it.
20 Feb 2015, 16:31 PM
#9
Posts: 688
No, ofc. not. No MG should be able to hold a sector on its own. The MG42 is close to it, but fortunately not quite a no-brainer.
I'm used to deploying MGs as back up for infantry. It works fine for the other factions for example to soft retreat infantry and draw the enemy infantry into the arch of fire of an MG waiting behind. Then when they get supressed, counter with own infantry. The problem with the 50 cal is that it loses half the squad before it can supress much. So in many cases, the position still gets overrun.
Come to think of it, the 50 cal seems to work pretty much as the soviet dishka (minus the AP). If the soviets didn't have any other MG, they'd also be screwed.
And finally, it's ironical that one of the info texts on the loading screen is about how the 50 cal is effective against vehicles with its AP rounds.
Nice replay. It seems like you get about 5 volleys per strike? (hard to be sure because they are so scattered that the area is wider than a screen). I wonder why I haven't had that work so far.
I'm used to deploying MGs as back up for infantry. It works fine for the other factions for example to soft retreat infantry and draw the enemy infantry into the arch of fire of an MG waiting behind. Then when they get supressed, counter with own infantry. The problem with the 50 cal is that it loses half the squad before it can supress much. So in many cases, the position still gets overrun.
Come to think of it, the 50 cal seems to work pretty much as the soviet dishka (minus the AP). If the soviets didn't have any other MG, they'd also be screwed.
And finally, it's ironical that one of the info texts on the loading screen is about how the 50 cal is effective against vehicles with its AP rounds.
Here's a replay where OKW had the perfect little sim-city to use it on, 2nd barrage gets some nice hits.
Nice replay. It seems like you get about 5 volleys per strike? (hard to be sure because they are so scattered that the area is wider than a screen). I wonder why I haven't had that work so far.
'There's honour in victory, honour in defeat and honour in just staying alive'.
[Quote from Wings Reel]
[Quote from Wings Reel]
20 Feb 2015, 18:45 PM
#10
1 
Posts: 3052 | Subs: 15
Put the .50 in a supported building and itll do fine, fighting positions are better though
240mm Arty is good for bunched up defenses(like a flak Hq and a bunch of MGs and a pak43 next to eachother) and area denial..its more like a "I dare you to walk through this arty barrage to finish off my jackson" type of weapon.
240mm Arty is good for bunched up defenses(like a flak Hq and a bunch of MGs and a pak43 next to eachother) and area denial..its more like a "I dare you to walk through this arty barrage to finish off my jackson" type of weapon.
21 Feb 2015, 17:31 PM
#11
Posts: 688
Nah, I don't think MG in a building suits the US playstyle, which is much about mobility. The MG42 is perfect for mobile support, the maxim is good, but the US just doesn't seem to have that option.
However, I found that the suppression volley from the RE can somewhat fill out the missing MG. So I'm mostly gonna skip the 50 cal from now on.
It's a bit of a shame for the airborne commander, though. One of his gadgets is wasted.
However, I found that the suppression volley from the RE can somewhat fill out the missing MG. So I'm mostly gonna skip the 50 cal from now on.
It's a bit of a shame for the airborne commander, though. One of his gadgets is wasted.
'There's honour in victory, honour in defeat and honour in just staying alive'.
[Quote from Wings Reel]
[Quote from Wings Reel]
21 Feb 2015, 19:46 PM
#12
1 Posts: 3052 | Subs: 15
Nah, I don't think MG in a building suits the US playstyle, which is much about mobility. The MG42 is perfect for mobile support, the maxim is good, but the US just doesn't seem to have that option.
However, I found that the suppression volley from the RE can somewhat fill out the missing MG. So I'm mostly gonna skip the 50 cal from now on.
It's a bit of a shame for the airborne commander, though. One of his gadgets is wasted.
Throw it in a building near the fight,not in a rear building.
The .50 is bad in a defensive position. Fighting Positions with Upgraded 50 cal are better at holding ground and suppressing a blob.It shines when you can advance with your rifles and then pop MG in a building near them. Its the best building MG in the game. You can still be aggressive and mobile and use buildings cleverly.
Also if it DOES die in the house or biuilding,it wont be dropped for the enemy to take. Itll just be dead in the building.
How is Mg42 mobile support but .50 isnt? Riflenade effectiveness is mitigated by using a building and supporting it..
I wouldnt build the 50 myself honestly either,and i dont. but not because its a BAD MG...you can make it work if you felt like making it work.
its just there are "better",easier to execute options like blobbing with bars.
21 Feb 2015, 20:53 PM
#13
Posts: 688
It's got a more specialised use then. Point taken.
By mobile support I mean the overall benefit you get from an Mg that can advance with your infantry, setup and re-setup as needed. For this to pay of, the sum of effectiveness of the MG in terms of setup/redeploy time, ability to supress, kill and the arch width has to reach a certain minimum IMO. MG42 and maxim do.
If the 50 cal did have the AP it did in COH1, I'd probably find it more usefull.
By mobile support I mean the overall benefit you get from an Mg that can advance with your infantry, setup and re-setup as needed. For this to pay of, the sum of effectiveness of the MG in terms of setup/redeploy time, ability to supress, kill and the arch width has to reach a certain minimum IMO. MG42 and maxim do.
If the 50 cal did have the AP it did in COH1, I'd probably find it more usefull.
'There's honour in victory, honour in defeat and honour in just staying alive'.
[Quote from Wings Reel]
[Quote from Wings Reel]
21 Feb 2015, 21:10 PM
#14
Posts: 935
50 cal best HMG in the game now. If Wehrmacht'd had it USF wouldn'be so op to play against it.
22 Feb 2015, 10:55 AM
#15
Posts: 1144 | Subs: 7
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApmrrrPr20ncdGF4VURuYjVGZXlIN3ptbV8tbzRzN0E&usp=drive_web#gid=0
http://www.coh2-stats.com/small_arms/fighting_position_mg_mp
http://www.coh2-stats.com/small_arms/m2hb_50cal_mp
50cal traits:
2nd highest dps (behind dshk)
highest suppression rate
10 suppression radius vs mg42 11.5 suppression radius
fast pack up/set up
small cone
to those saying that the fighting pit is better at suppressing, the 50cal weapon team actually has an easier time suppressing squads, and the fighting position 50cal has quite a bit LESS DPS than the 50cal team. however the fighting position 50cal has a suppression AoE of 13. ultimately though, theyll operate pretty much the same in most situations.
keep it behind green cover, or behind screening troops so axis LMGs dont focus it down instantly and itll work suppress blobs in 1-2 bursts.
http://www.coh2-stats.com/small_arms/fighting_position_mg_mp
http://www.coh2-stats.com/small_arms/m2hb_50cal_mp
50cal traits:
2nd highest dps (behind dshk)
highest suppression rate
10 suppression radius vs mg42 11.5 suppression radius
fast pack up/set up
small cone
to those saying that the fighting pit is better at suppressing, the 50cal weapon team actually has an easier time suppressing squads, and the fighting position 50cal has quite a bit LESS DPS than the 50cal team. however the fighting position 50cal has a suppression AoE of 13. ultimately though, theyll operate pretty much the same in most situations.
keep it behind green cover, or behind screening troops so axis LMGs dont focus it down instantly and itll work suppress blobs in 1-2 bursts.
22 Feb 2015, 16:59 PM
#16
1 Posts: 3052 | Subs: 15
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApmrrrPr20ncdGF4VURuYjVGZXlIN3ptbV8tbzRzN0E&usp=drive_web#gid=0
http://www.coh2-stats.com/small_arms/fighting_position_mg_mp
http://www.coh2-stats.com/small_arms/m2hb_50cal_mp
50cal traits:
2nd highest dps (behind dshk)
highest suppression rate
10 suppression radius vs mg42 11.5 suppression radius
fast pack up/set up
small cone
to those saying that the fighting pit is better at suppressing, the 50cal weapon team actually has an easier time suppressing squads, and the fighting position 50cal has quite a bit LESS DPS than the 50cal team. however the fighting position 50cal has a suppression AoE of 13. ultimately though, theyll operate pretty much the same in most situations.
keep it behind green cover, or behind screening troops so axis LMGs dont focus it down instantly and itll work suppress blobs in 1-2 bursts.
I said that because FP cant get sniped from the front,or stolen but youre right they both realistically perform the same
But if you need an area/flank covered from an infantry mob then..which one would you trust? a fighting position w/ MG or a MG team in green cover?
22 Feb 2015, 20:34 PM
#17
Posts: 688
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApmrrrPr20ncdGF4VURuYjVGZXlIN3ptbV8tbzRzN0E&usp=drive_web#gid=0
http://www.coh2-stats.com/small_arms/fighting_position_mg_mp
http://www.coh2-stats.com/small_arms/m2hb_50cal_mp
50cal traits:
2nd highest dps (behind dshk)
highest suppression rate
10 suppression radius vs mg42 11.5 suppression radius
fast pack up/set up
small cone
to those saying that the fighting pit is better at suppressing, the 50cal weapon team actually has an easier time suppressing squads, and the fighting position 50cal has quite a bit LESS DPS than the 50cal team. however the fighting position 50cal has a suppression AoE of 13. ultimately though, theyll operate pretty much the same in most situations.
keep it behind green cover, or behind screening troops so axis LMGs dont focus it down instantly and itll work suppress blobs in 1-2 bursts.
Thanks for the links.
The dps is not so important at this point, supression is.
And if you look at at supession at the link you gave, the supression of the 50 cal dips much lower with range compared to the MG42.
I guess this may be what leaves an impression that it supresses too little to stop an uncoming charge. Im not saying it needs to doas well as the MG42.Just that it does that job a bit too bad to be fully worh it.
I didn't check your numbers wrt the fighting position. I don't doubt them either. But it's funny how different it seems to be from my playing experience.
'There's honour in victory, honour in defeat and honour in just staying alive'.
[Quote from Wings Reel]
[Quote from Wings Reel]
23 Feb 2015, 03:14 AM
#18
Posts: 1144 | Subs: 7
I said that because FP cant get sniped from the front,or stolen but youre right they both realistically perform the same
But if you need an area/flank covered from an infantry mob then..which one would you trust? a fighting position w/ MG or a MG team in green cover?
a fighting position is a static position, and youre not always gonna manage to put one up to cover a flank while youre advancing. thats the benefit of the 50cal team, you can constantly reposition and help cover new approaches where as the fighting position cant. also i trust MG teams in green cover since its pracically impossible to wipe a full health squad in green cover with one mortar or grenade.
Thanks for the links.
The dps is not so important at this point, supression is.
And if you look at at supession at the link you gave, the supression of the 50 cal dips much lower with range compared to the MG42.
I guess this may be what leaves an impression that it supresses too little to stop an uncoming charge. Im not saying it needs to doas well as the MG42.Just that it does that job a bit too bad to be fully worh it.
I didn't check your numbers wrt the fighting position. I don't doubt them either. But it's funny how different it seems to be from my playing experience.
make sure youre looking at the correct weapon. http://www.coh2-stats.com/small_arms/m2hb_50cal_mp
http://www.coh2-stats.com/small_arms/hmg_team_mg42_mp as you can see the suppression per burst is very similar to each other.
a few edits after looking at the numbers again:
fighting position does have higher suppression but still significantly less dps at long range
23 Feb 2015, 08:29 AM
#19
Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1
I said that because FP cant get sniped from the front,or stolen but youre right they both realistically perform the same
But if you need an area/flank covered from an infantry mob then..which one would you trust? a fighting position w/ MG or a MG team in green cover?
If the player knows what he does, neither one or the other will stop him.
Personally I would use a rifle squad as bait & scout and reposition the MG to catch the mob out of cover.
Believing a single MG/bunker can stop a mob is purely 100% an Axis fanboi idea
23 Feb 2015, 15:32 PM
#20
Posts: 16
The 50cal is in many ways an improved maxim. It has a little bit faster setup time, wider cone and can vault fences. I believe it has better AOE suppression, though I am not 100% sure.
It has less LOS than range and therefore shorter effective range when unsupported. This again makes it a lot easier to clear it from the front.
It can be usefull to support vehicles in addition to infantry. It is a lot safer to engage volks once they are suppressed. And a lot easier to crush too.
If you choose the airborne commander you can always drop it to the soviets on maps with a lot of fences...
It has less LOS than range and therefore shorter effective range when unsupported. This again makes it a lot easier to clear it from the front.
It can be usefull to support vehicles in addition to infantry. It is a lot safer to engage volks once they are suppressed. And a lot easier to crush too.
If you choose the airborne commander you can always drop it to the soviets on maps with a lot of fences...
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