Allied Early Game in 3v3+

I've been playing a lot of team games the last few days and it's come to my attention that a lot of players who use the Allied factions play as if they are using Axis factions. Let me explain what I mean by this.

The Allied advantage lies in overwhelming the enemy early on with lots of infantry backed by support weapons and light vehicles (at least in team games). Too often I see players letting that window slip by with a maximum population of 18-30 as they wait for later units to become available. That's not how the factions work, you need enough units to flank that mg42 or that kubel. 2 units of front-line infantry is not enough to hold map control as Allies. Calling in a late game unit won't save you when you've already lost 70% of the map by mid game.

If you do this right you can get a fuel advantage which means don't wait for that IS-2 or expensive late game unit. Use your fuel surplus early to even further pressurise the Axis player by calling in mediums or else you are just wasting the work you put in. Mediums best window of opportunity is when you have taken early game map control, gotten a fuel advantage and called in that early medium armour. This allows your t-34 or Sherman to bully Axis infantry before they stockpile shrecks and before that panther shows up. Even better that pressure may force the Axis players to go for T3 (Ost) or call in a puma etc. (OKW) thus slowing the heavies even more. By the time the CP gets up to 10+ you'll be floating fuel if anything so spending it earlier on won't hurt. I've been watching replays where players are floating 400 to 500 fuel before call-ins and then they wonder why they can't hold any ground as mid and late game approaches.

Now in saying this you can still be out played at the start by decent Axis players but at least it will improve your win rate and maybe even enjoyment of the Allied factions if you use them as they were intended. I am also not saying the game is 100% balanced but I really do feel that some of the Allied frustration comes down to them trying to emulate how Axis players use their own faction. (Axis play to their strengths in getting late game armour, Allied strengths do not lie here).

TLDR: Allied players would have a much more enjoyable time in-game if they weren't trying to play their faction as if it was Axis. Holding out for late game call-ins and then wondering why they've already lost the game when they don't even take advantage of the early to mid game just leads to frustration.

And this is why many of them do not understand why others underline or even accuse the allied medium tanks efficiency in middle game (T34s, shermanns) Allied medium armor is quite effective used properly and at its time.

And this is why many of them do not understand why others underline or even accuse the allied medium tanks efficiency in middle game (T34s, shermanns) Allied medium armor is quite effective used properly and at its time.

Just played a 4v4 in which my USF ally made no rifles or RET, spammed fuel caches (which were destroyed 5 mins later) and then preceded to spam 50 cal mg and mortar trucks. Needless to say we lost that game within 20 mins and when I asked why my ally hadn't made any infantry the other Soviet player on my team firebombed my base as I was healing my own infantry.

Some people just don't get that you can't do that and hope to win.

This is not necessarily true. You push when you have a advantage period it doesn't matter what faction you are playing.

The problem with teching up to T3/T4 is when your using a call in unit as your primary armor, Such as T34/85, M4C, Your cutting two tanks by making a single tank from a tier building.

Doing this decreases your shock value of your medium swarm and you need that high shock value to deal with German armor having two less T34/85 or M4C is really bad if you need to surround a tank.

In USF's case, Jackson is so strong that you want it behind your EZ8 and the EZ8 is more of a meat tank than anything. Not to mention that teching to major is cheap.
To that effect i feel that P47 is generally a better choice.

Medium swarm & mines is the late game for allied armor in team games.
Having one of your teammates go Sov industry is a good way to take advantage of T34/76 early game and is good chump tanks while the more valuable tanks go in for the kill late game.

Problem with that - very small window when medium tank push is effective, and its always like all in, one mistake or lucky crit, and your advantage is lost, hello shreks, paks and panters. You can force T3 (OST) only if you hold 3 stars whole game, in other way germen player know - that time is on his side, always. I with my friends lost so many games when score was like 50-20/490-450, but panter have jail free card, and in every engagement allys lose one or more tanks, and finally it will be a critical mass of ger tanks and you cant hold your last VP. With 3v3+ ally you MUST be pre-made,to have a chance to win, and hold 2 stars all game, and you must win with VP before axis tank armada arrives.

While it is true you can run into players with limited experience in allies, with teams that are better constant pressure is still hard to pull of and not well rewarded.

The OKW player can drop a med truck just a little ways back and make an break point that requires enormous amounts of focus to bring down. If the Wehr player has a mortar HT good luck.

I rarely if ever float mp at the beginning mid of a match, but I still feel completely out classed by obers and the gren spam. They get more efficient units and some at lower cost. Meanwhile the lost of a rifle for me means I lose the vehicle snare. In team games the late game arrives so quickly the allied advantage in the early game is weak. Weathering the storm with even partial control of on vp and 1/3 or sometimes less of the map is more than enough for Germans to win. Once the German tanks arrive allies will slowly be pushed back as they give up mp to damage but the German player only loses time to repair. Over capitalizing in infantry, especially by American, results in huge upkeep cost and no room for tanks. Frequently I cannot get back on the field because I have lots of vet infantry I have nursed to the late game, but very few tanks, and over 1000 mp I cannot spend on anything. Meanwhile the German players are resource converting to unlimited artillery and 1 or 2 super tanks.

Moral of story, yes allies have to be aggressive but in team games the opportunity to use early game to their advantage is limited. Also being aggressive offers many opportunities for disastrous engagements. Meanwhile Germans can hold back and slowly bleed Allies while waiting for their laser guns and reactive armored space tanks with mind control smoke.

May I ask what players are using in the early game in terms of infantry and tiers? I find as Soviets T1 (scout car) is very good against OKW before they get shrecks and allows you to bully them until that point. However I use conscripts into t2 as I find if you use 1 squad to find out where mgs etc. are and then flank with others it works well. Also mortars can really screw over okw forward hq. T2 is better than T1 also in the sense that it's effectiveness in mid-late game doesn't drop as sharply as T1.

For USF I find getting grenades with 3x rifles a must, for the smokes more than anything. Also flamers for both factions ignore the godly acc received bonuses of vet axis infantry. Rifles with 1 bar and 1 flamer are surprisingly dangerous in terms of AI. If you do this you have to go captain though.

I've been playing a lot of team games the last few days and it's come to my attention that a lot of players who use the Allied factions play as if they are using Axis factions. Let me explain what I mean by this.

The Allied advantage lies in overwhelming the enemy early on with lots of infantry backed by support weapons and light vehicles (at least in team games). Too often I see players letting that window slip by with a maximum population of 18-30 as they wait for later units to become available. That's not how the factions work, you need enough units to flank that mg42 or that kubel. 2 units of front-line infantry is not enough to hold map control as Allies. Calling in a late game unit won't save you when you've already lost 70% of the map by mid game.

If you do this right you can get a fuel advantage which means don't wait for that IS-2 or expensive late game unit. Use your fuel surplus early to even further pressurise the Axis player by calling in mediums or else you are just wasting the work you put in. Mediums best window of opportunity is when you have taken early game map control, gotten a fuel advantage and called in that early medium armour. This allows your t-34 or Sherman to bully Axis infantry before they stockpile shrecks and before that panther shows up. Even better that pressure may force the Axis players to go for T3 (Ost) or call in a puma etc. (OKW) thus slowing the heavies even more. By the time the CP gets up to 10+ you'll be floating fuel if anything so spending it earlier on won't hurt. I've been watching replays where players are floating 400 to 500 fuel before call-ins and then they wonder why they can't hold any ground as mid and late game approaches.

Now in saying this you can still be out played at the start by decent Axis players but at least it will improve your win rate and maybe even enjoyment of the Allied factions if you use them as they were intended. I am also not saying the game is 100% balanced but I really do feel that some of the Allied frustration comes down to them trying to emulate how Axis players use their own faction. (Axis play to their strengths in getting late game armour, Allied strengths do not lie here).

TLDR: Allied players would have a much more enjoyable time in-game if they weren't trying to play their faction as if it was Axis. Holding out for late game call-ins and then wondering why they've already lost the game when they don't even take advantage of the early to mid game just leads to frustration.

Sadly true and well written, thanks.

In this kind of games - more soviets = more chance. You must abuse, abuse as hell to win, on urban maps FHQ + con. spam is good, but all team must work together, you push hard or lose. T1 - map depended, M3 could be very buggy on streets and thin passages, if you go for it, you must try to kill as many squads on retreat as you can, first of all sturmpios and weapon crews, if you took doctrine with 34/85 or have problems with fuel, adding T2 to your T1 is a good idea. T2 always useful, at least 1 player in team must take it.

May I ask what players are using in the early game in terms of infantry and tiers? I find as Soviets T1 (scout car) is very good against OKW before they get shrecks and allows you to bully them until that point. However I use conscripts into t2 as I find if you use 1 squad to find out where mgs etc. are and then flank with others it works well. Also mortars can really screw over okw forward hq. T2 is better than T1 also in the sense that it's effectiveness in mid-late game doesn't drop as sharply as T1.

For USF I find getting grenades with 3x rifles a must, for the smokes more than anything. Also flamers for both factions ignore the godly acc received bonuses of vet axis infantry. Rifles with 1 bar and 1 flamer are surprisingly dangerous in terms of AI. If you do this you have to go captain though.

i like going m3. get it to vet 2 and actually use it as 'scout' car in the late game is fun. put some guards in it and hunt some noob's lone stug or just block path so zis can take a few more shots. i also find m3 a great vehicle to move your flame throwers around relatively safely, which is crucial in maps like lienne forest, the town part.

Just played a 4v4 in which my USF ally made no rifles or RET, spammed fuel caches (which were destroyed 5 mins later) and then preceded to spam 50 cal mg and mortar trucks. Needless to say we lost that game within 20 mins and when I asked why my ally hadn't made any infantry the other Soviet player on my team firebombed my base as I was healing my own infantry.

Some people just don't get that you can't do that and hope to win.

It must be the same guy I played with, he went Rifle company and just spammed fuel caches within the 1st minute. He was like dude I gotta get my Ez 8 and I am like really right now?? I have seen Axis players do the same by building Fuel Caches for OKW players than those players get raped by me and my team. L2P n00bs seriously.

i like going m3. get it to vet 2 and actually use it as 'scout' car in the late game is fun. put some guards in it and hunt some noob's lone stug or just block path so zis can take a few more shots. i also find m3 a great vehicle to move your flame throwers around relatively safely, which is crucial in maps like lienne forest, the town part.

Yeah M3 has very good sight range at vet 3 and is quite mobile, at that point in game it is very fragile so you are right to use it as more of a scouting and transport vehicle. Can get you back in the fight faster and it's funny when guards in M3 circle turretless vehicles and plink them to death.

It must be the same guy I played with, he went Rifle company and just spammed fuel caches within the 1st minute. He was like dude I gotta get my Ez 8 and I am like really right now?? I have seen Axis players do the same by building Fuel Caches for OKW players than those players get raped by me and my team. L2P n00bs seriously.

Yeah I just don't understand this, why spend 200 MP to get +3 fuel when instead you could use that on a squad and cap another sector to also get muni and deny that resource to the enemy! What ends up happening is they then have no MP for infantry and you must fight 2v1 which inevitably leads to you being pushed back and then the cache being destroyed.

Allies should be doing everything in their power to delay Axis late game and heavy tanks, not trying to beat them at their own game.

i think this is really generalizing the playstyle of those of who play ALlies. There are a lot of good players and a lot of bad ones. Good players will be aggressive and try to force the enemy back. Bad Allied players usually camp and lack aggressive play.

However this doesn't justify that 3v3+ is balanced. These larger game modes are still horribly imbalanced towards Axis. Yes it is possible to win as Allies if you are super-aggressive early. However, it is not fair for both sides. Losing early beacause the other team has a better early game is not fun. Conversely, losing the late game because the other team has a better late game is not fun either.

Someone have an advice what you can do against axis premade/clan team that abuse Luftwaffe Supply Doctrine (3 OKW + Werh), it's hard to win early battles when opponent use med drops and contr KT, when it arrives on the field around 15 min mark. My team faced it couple of times and it always was a roll over for ger.

Someone have an advice what you can do against axis premade/clan team that abuse Luftwaffe Supply Doctrine (3 OKW + Werh), it's hard to win early battles when opponent use med drops and contr KT, when it arrives on the field around 15 min mark. My team faced it couple of times and it always was a roll over for ger.

It depends on the map, On lienne forest it is near impossible to prevent it.
Comes down to this basically: He is cutting squads and map presence to do it,
So you have a very small window to push and push very hard to stop it while setting up mines everywhere
You have to have mines down to stop a 15m KT. You won't see a lot out of the Wehr player who is spamming it.

It is about the same difficulty to stop as is FHQ spam on rostov.

Dont play allies in 3v3+ Problem solved

Dont play allies in 3v3+ Problem solved

It's more fun and a challenge to fight Axis only n00bs.

FHQ on Rostov is really good, but not same difficult, especially if ger are at south, you can occupy stone houses in the middle by sturmpios, they always will be there first and wooden buildings are made from paper. Even if you fail at that you just need mortar half tracks or fast Stuka. If you have star on island, baiting middle star and keeping your fuel, for south it's quite simple, you will be fine, just bomb it and wait for late.

Mines are awesome and etc, but when I playing axis myself, I always build minesweepers, cause I know there will be mines, so I don't make tank assault without them.

Allied players would have a much more enjoyable time in-game if they weren't trying to play their faction as if it was Axis. Holding out for late game call-ins and then wondering why they've already lost the game when they don't even take advantage of the early to mid game just leads to frustration.

And then the "OP Germans! Where is our Pershing!?" threads pop up.

Bad Allied players usually camp and lack aggressive play.

While it does require more skill to push successfully than to camp, what I see online more than anything while playing allies is reckless pushing. And when that fails the reckless pushers call their teammates noobs and ragequit. Standard behaviour.

And then the "OP Germans! Where is our Pershing!?" threads pop up.

Not all Allies players do this. I can say the same about Axis whiners who complain about menial units USF or Sov have. ea Maxium spam/B4/Jackson