Ostheer - MG42

Thats true, but that was not that time I am referring too, and no, it was not the "I can click on the Tiger Ace button and therefore am entitled to win" period either. I am a good deal better ranked with all other factions btw, even with OKW, and I barely play them. I mean, if I made a herculean effort and focused solely on OH I could perhaps get back there, but its just too fucking frustrating and I consistantly lose to people I regularly meet and often defeat in other matchups. The true indication of imbalance is that as US I have a realistic shot at beating top 50 OH players and even get top 10 ones into serious trouble, players that sweep me off the map in 15 minutes in any other constellation...

I understand, i cant find Ost enjoyable these days at all, so i usually play Soviets with Counterattack Tactics and win

nearly every single game :/

I have US, but i dont play it - i dont like to play it since early game to me is always the same (push back enemy several miles with m20/riflemen mass/other poison) until victory, or if its a larger game mode you try to do that before hellish late game catches up to you. Unless the enemy is Ost where you still dont care and have no problem countering most Ost vehicles with Jackson and the enemy cant catch up because *cough* crappy tech costs in which USF gets manpower back for teching.

What many of the better Ost players do these days is go Close Air support and spam redistribute resources with double Pak. This enables them to draw out a very strong T2 for a very long time. Early mass LMGs and the occasional S-mine/Teller make all the difference and lets you win the infantry fights that you otherwise lose hard.

What many of the better Ost players do these days is go Close Air support and spam redistribute resources with double Pak. This enables them to draw out a very strong T2 for a very long time. Early mass LMGs and the occasional S-mine/Teller make all the difference and lets you win the infantry fights that you otherwise lose hard.

Dont forget the one button Support team and tank eraser. Makes P47 against Ost look like childsplay

Dont forget the one button Support team and tank eraser. Makes P47 against Ost look like childsplay

I think the Close air support strafe is actually reasonably well balanced since its directional and can therefore be dodged. The regular one on the other hand, ye, it needs to be looked at.

I think the Close air support strafe is actually reasonably well balanced since its directional and can therefore be dodged. The regular one on the other hand, ye, it needs to be looked at.

I dont think any of the AT strafes are well balanced. I have yet to see a US tank survive a single pass from CAS. I suspect the Dozer might. Every other is erased from full health. Not even the P47 is that strong. First pass fucks you up if your a Medium but you can escape.

So that just means Faust and Dead Sherman/Jackson/M8 or whatever plus any infantry or support weapons not just tanks. But I am sure thats for another topic.

MG42 does need a buff but not a huge one. Its the MG version of the Jackson. Top 50 players think its GREAT or OP. Other 2000 players dont get good use out of it. Rebalance it please.

I dont think any of the AT strafes are well balanced. I have yet to see a US tank survive a single pass from CAS. I suspect the Dozer might. Every other is erased from full health. Not even the P47 is that strong. First pass fucks you up if your a Medium but you can escape.

So that just means Faust and Dead Sherman/Jackson/M8 or whatever plus any infantry or support weapons not just tanks. But I am sure thats for another topic.

MG42 does need a buff but not a huge one. Its the MG version of the Jackson. Top 50 players think its GREAT or OP. Other 2000 players dont get good use out of it. Rebalance it please.

Eh no offence, but what top 50 players would you be referring to? The ones I know a little tend to complain about the thing.

Eh no offence, but what top 50 players would you be referring to? The ones I know a little tend to complain about the thing.

Scroll up see Lemons post....


Edit forgot my Emotes

Robust discussion is fine-but post #103 went too far.

Please stop asking to see each other's player cards.

Back to topic

didnt mg42 get a slight buff? i feel and hearsd imperial dane that it shoots way faster after set up and traverse faster.

i think cruzz's v squad formation for mgs and not being able to throw grenade when suppressed would solve the problem. obers and para m1919 will still rape but its separate issue i think.

Robust discussion is fine-but post #103 went too far.

Please stop asking to see each other's player cards.

Back to topic

where's your playercard, noob

I think the only buff the mg42 needs is an increase to far accuracy. Right now it's at an abysmal 14% with like a dps of 2.7 or something iirc

I watched lemon play a 2v2 (not a 1v1) today testing out the MG42s. I witness him lose 2 MG42s squads due USF grenade and 1 to infantry attack. Lemon kept replacing the left behind MG42s with engineers, thats not idea. Also, Lemon used all MG42 bulletins, not standard MG42s.

I don't know why you're cherry picking. Sure I lost my mg42 crews but you forget to count the many more numerous times I held back allied pushes even when they did use smoke. Also, this isn't the only time I've 'tested' mg42s, Ive pretty much exclusively use mg42 heavy strats for the past week or two since I prefer it over gren heavy starts

I think the only buff the mg42 needs is an increase to far accuracy. Right now it's at an abysmal 14% with like a dps of 2.7 or something iirc



I don't know why you're cherry picking. Sure I lost my mg42 crews but you forget to count the many more numerous times I held back allied pushes even when they did use smoke. Also, this isn't the only time I've 'tested' mg42s, Ive pretty much exclusively use mg42 heavy strats for the past week or two since I prefer it over gren heavy starts

Don't assume im cherry picking when i watched the whole game. Im giving an analysis of your criteria of how you used the mg42s in that game, do you recall how many mg42s you made and how many you lost and had to replace? Also, dont forget you played a 2v2 and not a 1v1 in this game. Also u used 3 mg42 bulletins and not the standard mg42. Just want to make sure readers are clear on the criteria u used which makes a difference in your conclusions

Suggestion to play 1v1 with no mg42 bulletins but against a player with your equal skill level, thats the true test here, none of this random allies average/noob player testing

Don't assume im cherry picking when i watched the whole game. Im giving an analysis of your criteria of how you used the mg42s in that game, do you recall how many mg42s you made and how many you lost and had to replace? Also, dont forget you played a 2v2 and not a 1v1 in this game. Also u used 3 mg42 bulletins and not the standard mg42. Just want to make sure readers are clear on the criteria u used which makes a difference in your conclusions

Suggestion to play 1v1 with no mg42 bulletins but against a player with your equal skill level, thats the true test here, none of this random allies average/noob player testing

the team that game was a top 100 team iirc, it would be a disservice to call them noobs or average. you are cherry picking because you only mention the 3 losses and not mentioning the many times my mg42s performed to expectation in suppressing multiple squads, and being able to relocate and continue suppressing after they get smoked. also please note that the 12% increased fire rate only makes a difference in one situation where the entire enemy squad is in yellow cover, in which case the mg suppresses at the very end of the first burst instead of the very beginning of the 2nd.

also id like to just post this for those of you guys saying mg42 suppression is inconsistent

Firing at Far range = 1.15 Second (73% of the first burst done)
Firing at Mid range = 1.04 Second (52% of the first burst done)
Firing at Near Range = 0.94 Second (40% of the first burst done)
Time to suppress a squad in yellow cover: (0.5 modifier)
Firing at Far range = 4.65 Seconds (46% of the second burst done)
Firing at Mid range = 3.66 Seconds (5% of the second burst done)
Firing at Near range = 1.89 Seconds (80% of the first burst done)

courtesy of pherrera

the team that game was a top 100 team iirc, it would be a disservice to call them noobs or average. you are cherry picking because you only mention the 3 losses and not mentioning the many times my mg42s performed to expectation in suppressing multiple squads, and being able to relocate and continue suppressing after they get smoked. also please note that the 12% increased fire rate only makes a difference in one situation where the entire enemy squad is in yellow cover, in which case the mg suppresses at the very end of the first burst instead of the very beginning of the 2nd.

also id like to just post this for those of you guys saying mg42 suppression is inconsistent

Firing at Far range = 1.15 Second (73% of the first burst done)
Firing at Mid range = 1.04 Second (52% of the first burst done)
Firing at Near Range = 0.94 Second (40% of the first burst done)
Time to suppress a squad in yellow cover: (0.5 modifier)
Firing at Far range = 4.65 Seconds (46% of the second burst done)
Firing at Mid range = 3.66 Seconds (5% of the second burst done)
Firing at Near range = 1.89 Seconds (80% of the first burst done)

courtesy of pherrera

Thats great u did a 2v2 top team, with 3 mg42 bulletins, awsome. My suggestions criteria has been no mg42s bulletins 1v1 game. Thats the realistic play for the majority of oshteer players 1v1, Also love the mg42 stat numbers but in practical 1v1 play the outcome/results of performance are telling across the board, which is the mg42 not what it should be in practical performance. If your conclusions is for all players to play exactly like u, its not reality, so again do some 1v1s with your equal skill level and lets review the results

To the history QQ going around...

〈〈 MG 42 (Maschinengewehr 42) 〉〉
Country of Origin & Manufacturer: Nazi Germany (Mauser-Werke AG / Wilhelm-Gustloff-Stiftung / Steyr-Daimler-Puch - Nazi Germany)
Chambered In: 7.92×57 mm Mauser
Action: Belt-fed, Recoil-operated, Roller-locked; fully automatic
Feed: 50-round Gurttrommel (drum magazine) or 50-round belt, OR 250-round boxed belt.
Rate of Fire (Cyclic): 1200-1500 RPM (1200 for most; 1500 for 'elite' units; cyclic RoF increases by 1% (1.01) per shot; effect will last for the longest duration of a burst)
Rate of Fire (Maximum - Practical): 500 RPM
Rate of Fire (Sustained - Practical): 250 RPM
Range (Minimum): 200 m (sight adjustment; practical for use even at point blank range)
Range (Maximum): 3,500 m (indirect fire; tripod-mount only; only when equipped with optics)
Range (Max Effective): 800 m (capped at 500 m in-game for bipod-mounted versions), 1000 m (tripod-mounted, in-game)
Sights: Iron (Front post, rear V-notch) OR 4x magnification optics (tripod-mounts only)
Accuracy: 4-5 Minutes Of Angle (MOA)
Reload: 20-23s
Other:

« 7,9 sS (schweres Spitzgeschoß - Ball) »
Standard ball round for German forces. Unmarked steel bullet.
760 m/s velocity
12.8 g mass (197 gr)
Fuse delay: N/A (solid slug)
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.44
Penetration:
10 = 1
5 =
3 =
1 =
Damage: 49.296

760 m/s ÷ 1000 = 0.76
0.76² = 0.5776
0.5776 x 197 gr = 113.7872
113.7872 x 2.219 = 252.4937968 ft/lb (342.335621533 J)
342.335621533 J x 0.44 = ( 150.62767347452 J )
150.62767347452 + 342.335621533 = 492.96329500752
492.96329500752 ÷ 2 = 246.48164750376
246.48164750376 ÷ 5 = 49.296329500752
ROUND -> 0.000
[ 49.296 J ]

-----------------------------------------------------------

〈〈 ПМ обр. 1910 ("PM model 1910", a.k.a. M1910 Maxim) & ПМ обр. 1910/30 〉〉
Country of Origin & Manufacturer:
Chambered In: 7.62×54 mmR
Action: Belt-fed, short-recoil, toggle-locked, fully automatic
Feed: 250-round belt (non-desintigrating)
Rate of Fire (Cyclic): 600 RPM* (As a Maxim weapon, cyclic RoF is adjustable from 350 to 800 RPM--600 RPM is standard for the 1910).
Rate of Fire (Maximum - Practical): 600 RPM
Rate of Fire (Sustained - Practical): 600 RPM (effective ROF is 2 to 4 (2 to 3 in case of bolt guns) times the clip/mag size of the weapon
Range (Minimum): m
Range (Maximum): m
Range (Max Effective): 550 m
Sights: Iron (Front post, rear flip up)
Accuracy: 2-5 Minutes Of Angle (MOA)
Reload: 31-34s
Other: RoF will be set at 600 RPM standard, but adjustable from 350 to 800 RPM in-game. The Maxim is highly Reliable in the field and can chew through belt after belt of ammunition.

« Л ("L"; light ball) »
Copper, unpainted bullet.
855 m/s velocity
9.6 g mass (147 gr)
Fuse delay: N/A (solid slug)
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.458
Penetration:
19 =
15 =
10 =
5 =
Damage: 47.137

855 m/s ÷ 1000 = 0.855
0.855² = 0.731025
0.731025 x 147 gr = 107.460675
107.460675 x 2.219 = 238.455237825 ft/lb (323.301891307 J)
323.301891307 J x 0.458 = ( 148.072266218606 J )
148.072266218606 + 323.301891307 = 471.374157525606
471.374157525606 ÷ 2 = 235.687078762803
235.687078762803 ÷ 5 = 47.1374157525606
ROUND -> 0.000
[ 47.137 J ]
-------------------------------------------------------------------
〈〈 ДП обр. 1928 ("DP model 1928", a.k.a. DP-28), ДПМ (DPM), ДТ (DT), & ДТМ (DTM) 〉〉
Country of Origin & Manufacturer: Kovrov Machine Gun Factory; Degtyarev - Soviet Union
Chambered In: 7.62×54 mmR
Action: Gas-operated, fully automatic
Feed: 47-round circular pan magazine
Rate of Fire (Cyclic): 600 RPM
Rate of Fire (Maximum - Practical): 100 RPM
Rate of Fire (Sustained - Practical): 60 RPM (effective ROF is 2 to 4 (2 to 3 in case of bolt guns) times the clip/mag size of the weapon
Range (Minimum): m
Range (Maximum): m
Range (Max Effective): 800 m (limited to 500m in-game)
Sights: Iron (Hooded front post, rear tanget leaf)
Accuracy: 2-5 Minutes Of Angle (MOA)
Reload: 9-15s
Other: Captured examples known as the MG120 (r) in German service.

« Л ("L"; light ball) »
Copper, unpainted bullet.
840 m/s velocity
9.6 g mass (147 gr)
Fuse delay: N/A (solid slug)
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.458
Penetration:
19 =
15 =
10 =
5 =
Damage: 45.498

840 m/s ÷ 1000 = 0.84
0.84² = 0.7056
0.7056 x 147 gr = 103.7232
103.7232 x 2.219 = 230.1617808 ft/lb (312.057473419 J)
312.057473419 J x 0.458 = ( 142.922322825902 J )
142.922322825902 + 312.057473419 = 454.979796244902
454.979796244902 ÷ 2 = 227.489898122451
227.489898122451 ÷ 5 = 45.4979796244902
ROUND -> 0.000
[ 45.498 J ]

Explain to me, noting the effective sustained RoF, how the MG 42 was a face-smashingly good design. Was it better than a lot of MGs out there? Yep. But it's not like it was impossible for water-cooled MGs to utterly faceroll it in the sustained suppressive fire category.

Explain to me, noting the effective sustained RoF, how the MG 42 was a face-smashingly good design. Was it better than a lot of MGs out there? Yep. But it's not like it was impossible for water-cooled MGs to utterly faceroll it in the sustained suppressive fire category.

I don´t know whether it can be called a face-smashingly good design. But for sure it was the best MG of the second world war. It improved the already successful design of the MG34.

Most significant advantages were:

A single infantry man could carry it. It didn´t weight much as it was air cooled.

The barrel change was easy. Takes about 5 seconds.

Most commonly belt fed. 250 rounds > 30, 20 respectively.

Ease of production. The MG42 was in fact easier to mass produce than the MG34. Around 415.500 exemplars produced.

High rate of fire. This is - contrary to what some guys here want to put it - an advantage. The more fire you can but on the enemy the better. German squads usually had the fire superiority on that basis, despite having bolt action rifles. It´s downright funny how some guys make this a look like a total disadvantage. It´s different tactics. The whole German squad concept revolved around the MG42putting as much lead into the air as possible. The Kar98k bolt action was used for single aimed shots or often not at all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSCDkkoAKbs#t=2m27s


All in all there are so many advantages in this thing that it easily becomes the best MG of the war.

where's your playercard, noob

Where's your get-out-of-jail-free card, e-peen meister?

MG-42 just needs fast suppression and that is about it. Stop complaining that 2+ squads are overwhelming your MG because this happens with Soviets against OKW too. Support the damn thing with Grens and Flame Pios and you will be fine early game.

What people don't seem to get is that mgs are support units. They are made to give assistance to mainline infantry, they are force multipliers. An mg should be following your frontline as you advance or set up in green cover slightly back from your line as you wait for the enemies attack (with your infantry set up to defend it).

One of the relic tips even says this to the line of, always follow up your mg engaging troops with something else like a mortar for example (Personally I would prefer grens).

If you have your mg unsupported against 1 rifleman who uses both smokes and nades to get to you (15+30) as well as having double bars (120). Then why shouldn't a mainline front infantry unit who invested that Muni be allowed to beat a lone support weapon (who if in this situation has failed to support their own infantry in engagements and been caught on it's own where it can't provide support if no allied unit is around it) in combat. Especially since as Lemon mentioned it just requires you to packup as smoke is shot and either relocate to behind your own infantry (where you should have been anyway as you anticipate an attack) or moving up behind your infantry as you advance to meet them or to take ground elsewhere.

Thing is if u refuse to change mg42,then u buff grenadiers to 5 men at same dps.Coz something has to give before rifle ROFLstomp on ost infantry earlygame.No amount of support theories is stopping that right now as is evident from results and tourney.