I am honestly baffled that there are people who can defend the current mechanic.
1. MG42 in heavy cover
2. RiflemAn (SINGULAR) running across neutral cover to mg42
3. Rifleman throws a grenade at mg42
4. Mg42 loses the gunner
5. Mg42 takes 50 years to change the gunner
6. Rifleman snipes the Gunner over and over again and wipes the squad.
NOBODY IS TALKING ABOUT 1 MG VS 9382 RIFLEMEN. We don't like how ONE RIFLEMAN SQUAD can run face-first into an mg42 and kill it with a grenade.
Ostheer - MG42
17 Feb 2015, 21:50 PM
#41
Posts: 308
17 Feb 2015, 21:52 PM
#42
Posts: 1144 | Subs: 7
I am honestly baffled that there are people who can defend the current mechanic.
1. MG42 in heavy cover
2. RiflemAn (SINGULAR) running across neutral cover to mg42
3. Rifleman throws a grenade at mg42
4. Mg42 loses the gunner
5. Mg42 takes 50 years to change the gunner
6. Rifleman snipes the Gunner over and over again and wipes the squad.
NOBODY IS TALKING ABOUT 1 MG VS 9382 RIFLEMEN. We don't like how ONE RIFLEMAN SQUAD can run face-first into an mg42 and kill it with a grenade.
show me a replay or recreate a scenario where a single rifleman can run across neutral cover at an mg42 in green, throw a grenade, and wipe the whole squad using small arms.
17 Feb 2015, 22:45 PM
#43
Posts: 148
show me a replay or recreate a scenario where a single rifleman can run across neutral cover at an mg42 in green, throw a grenade, and wipe the whole squad using small arms.
Add a smoke grenade to the mix and you get the MG42 squad wipe, "that was easy", Also, shock troops can do this with ease.
17 Feb 2015, 23:50 PM
#44
Posts: 1144 | Subs: 7
Add a smoke grenade to the mix and you get the MG42 squad wipe, "that was easy", Also, shock troops can do this with ease.
as soon as you see the smoke grenade animation you should be relocating your mg42 instead of leaving it there
18 Feb 2015, 00:25 AM
#45
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
as soon as you see the smoke grenade animation you should be relocating your mg42 instead of leaving it there
Requires too much micro.
Squad formation and spacing should be a start on "fixing" mgs.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
18 Feb 2015, 00:33 AM
#46
Posts: 627
Requires too much micro.
Squad formation and spacing should be a start on "fixing" mgs.
Responding to enemy stratergy too much micro.
Thinking about sensible things to do with troops too much micro.
Plz new german unit MG-40,000 that fires 40mm rounds in cone size of map also see through smoke and terrain and kill tanks because Krupp
18 Feb 2015, 00:34 AM
#47
Posts: 1216
I think a useful tweak is the unit gives an audible notification of a smoke grenade being thrown, ie "Smoke! Ve can't see for schit!". We already have flank/ grenade notifications.
as soon as you see the smoke grenade animation you should be relocating your mg42 instead of leaving it there
Of course I can't imagine Relic doing to all that trouble to add one additional voiceline, unless of course there's some residual file for just that hidden somewhere.
18 Feb 2015, 00:37 AM
#48
Posts: 148
as soon as you see the smoke grenade animation you should be relocating your mg42 instead of leaving it [\quote]
So retreat and lose map control, or move to another position, which takes a second to pack up and move, then reposition and second to setup, but ofcourse the mg42 squad is being charged and then wiped out during repositioning or during setup... still a MG42 squad wipe or lose map control
18 Feb 2015, 00:56 AM
#49
Posts: 419
Plain and simple it got nerfed too hard. Suppression, traverse, aim time, set up time, is all horrible and makes this thing barely useful.Add smoke and fire up and it takes loads of micro to get any use other then a minor annoyance with it.
18 Feb 2015, 00:57 AM
#50
Posts: 1144 | Subs: 7
I think a useful tweak is the unit gives an audible notification of a smoke grenade being thrown, ie "Smoke! Ve can't see for schit!". We already have flank/ grenade notifications.
Of course I can't imagine Relic doing to all that trouble to add one additional voiceline, unless of course there's some residual file for just that hidden somewhere.
the mg42 crew will say 'grenade' like a frag is being thrown at them if a smoke grenade lands near them, atleast for american smoke grenades.
So retreat and lose map control, or move to another position, which takes a second to pack up and move, then reposition and second to setup, but ofcourse the mg42 squad is being charged and then wiped out during repositioning or during setup... still a MG42 squad wipe or lose map control
in an actual game youll have AT LEAST one unit supporting the mg42. that one unit will constantly be shooting at the advancing squad, while taking minimal damage since the enemy squad is moving.
in some cases, an enemy squad will be suppressed before the smoke grenade lands, and that gives you plenty of time to step back, and reposition your mg42. in the case you have multiple mg42s, you can reface one mg42 to cover for the other as your original mg42 repositions.
dont forget that smoke costs munitions and is basically countered by micro or two mg42s.
18 Feb 2015, 01:05 AM
#51
Posts: 148
the mg42 crew will say 'grenade' like a frag is being thrown at them if a smoke grenade lands near them, atleast for american smoke grenades.
in an actual game youll have AT LEAST one unit supporting the mg42. that one unit will constantly be shooting at the advancing squad, while taking minimal damage since the enemy squad is moving.
in some cases, an enemy squad will be suppressed before the smoke grenade lands, and that gives you plenty of time to step back, and reposition your mg42. in the case you have multiple mg42s, you can reface one mg42 to cover for the other as your original mg42 repositions.
dont forget that smoke costs munitions and is basically countered by micro or two mg42s.
Oh so now lets mix it up and add supporting troops, so then add another rifleman , how about adding some vehicles, or something or something else..... this does not justify a 1 rifleman or shock troop to take out an mg42 with out support, you can also say two shock troops or two rifleman againt mg42 and gren etc..., again doesnt justify
18 Feb 2015, 01:07 AM
#52
Posts: 1144 | Subs: 7
Oh so now lets mix it up and add supporting troops, so then add another rifleman , how add some vehicles, or something or something else..... this does not justify a 1 rifleman or shock troop to take out an mg42 with out support, you alos say two shock troops or two rifleman, again doesnt justify
once again, your original claim was that a rifleman squad in neutral cover can run straight into an mg42 in green, throw a grenade, and wipe it with small arms. this is so wrong its hilarious.
18 Feb 2015, 01:10 AM
#53
Posts: 959
The thing is that allies have BY FAR better MGs in the game, BUT they also have the counter to mgs which is SMOKE, whereas axis don't have smoke ability for the infantry.
That's what makes the encounter of Ost and USF even harder since despite USF's superior inf vs Ost, Ost's MG42 becomes useless with the smoke ability of the riflemen.
P.S. that's not a fair game if you just have to sit down and pray/micro two MGs to get away with the rifle's smokes. You def lose to a player with the same skill level even if you micro the best
That's what makes the encounter of Ost and USF even harder since despite USF's superior inf vs Ost, Ost's MG42 becomes useless with the smoke ability of the riflemen.
P.S. that's not a fair game if you just have to sit down and pray/micro two MGs to get away with the rifle's smokes. You def lose to a player with the same skill level even if you micro the best
18 Feb 2015, 01:12 AM
#54
Posts: 148
once again, your original claim was that a rifleman squad in neutral cover can run straight into an mg42 in green, throw a grenade, and wipe it with small arms. this is so wrong its hilarious.
Whats hilarios is i didnt make that claim, i said put a smoke grenade in the mix... easy for rifleman/shock troop to win
18 Feb 2015, 01:16 AM
#55
Posts: 1144 | Subs: 7
The thing is that allies have BY FAR better MGs in the game, BUT they also have the counter to mgs which is SMOKE, whereas axis don't have smoke ability for the infantry.
That's what makes the encounter of Ost and USF even harder since despite USF's superior inf vs Ost, Ost's MG42 becomes useless with the smoke ability of the riflemen.
P.S. that's not a fair game if you just have to sit down and pray/micro two MGs to get away with the rifle's smokes. You def lose to a player with the same skill level even if you micro the best
how is it not fair? you basically force a retreat for free, make the enemy player use munitions, and gain territory every time you properly micro your machineguns and suppress enemy squads. if you dont like to micro machineguns due to smoke just build grenadiers and mortars.
Whats hilarios is i didnt make that claim, i said put a smoke grenade in the mix... easy for rifleman/shock troop to win
oops it was dpfarce who made that claim.
18 Feb 2015, 01:39 AM
#56
Posts: 959
how is it not fair? you basically force a retreat for free, make the enemy player use munitions, and gain territory every time you properly micro your machineguns and suppress enemy squads. if you dont like to micro machineguns due to smoke just build grenadiers and mortars.
when you have two Mgs he has two riflemen (-80mp) than you and it's not a big deal for him to flank both ur mgs. Mortars/grens is a different story as we're discussing mgs and smoke ability to counter it here
18 Feb 2015, 01:45 AM
#57
Posts: 440
I should not even get into these sort of arguments, but thats BS. MG34/42 were pretty much without parallel in their day and have set the conceptual standard for GPMGs. This applies both from a production/enduser standpoint.
+1.
The freakin' thing still exists today virtually unchanged in the MG3. Even the famous American M60 incorporated many design elements from the MG42 (and FG42).
The MG34 was already the best general purpose machine-gun of it's day, the MG42 was basically a lighter, simpler and therefore cheaper to produce improvement on that design. Nothing anyone else had was even comparable.
18 Feb 2015, 01:48 AM
#58
Posts: 160
Yeah I don't see the issue here either. You're complaining that you have to micro your mg42 to beat riflemen? What's wrong with that? Ostheer get smoke too, from their mortars, and can launch them from a much safer range.
I would love to see a replay where two rifleman approach and beat two properly micro-ed MG42s.
I would love to see a replay where two rifleman approach and beat two properly micro-ed MG42s.
18 Feb 2015, 02:27 AM
#59
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
Responding to enemy stratergy too much micro.
Thinking about sensible things to do with troops too much micro.
Plz new german unit MG-40,000 that fires 40mm rounds in cone size of map also see through smoke and terrain and kill tanks because Krupp
Sarcasm is not strong on this one.
There might be problems with MGs in general, but some of the things people state are just L2P issues, as Lemon explains.
Unless your gunner gets killed or you have the missfortune of having to reload midpush, theres no way a single infantry squad being able to take your MG42 (MG34 might have problems during lategame yellow cover craters) using smoke or not, cause you'll have enough time to move your MG while he is being supressed.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
18 Feb 2015, 04:35 AM
#60
Posts: 1705
It doesn't matter even if it suppresses a rifle squad,grenade will still wipe while suppressed.Seen it happen too many times.
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