Ostheer: What is to be done?

29% to penetrate at max range.
37% to penetrate King Tiger by Jackson.
I don't see huge difference.

Same about SU76 vs Tiger.

The SU76 is garbage, and so is the StuG G, this isn't exactly a controversial statement. Multiple people have pointed out the StuG should get a buff so It can be Ostheers non-doc TD.

And when the StuG starts doing 240 damage while having a turret and AP increase shells we can start comparing.

I missed this post by holy crap my sides have entered the 9th dimension, StuG's to counter IS2's.

StuG Ausf G Pen: 130.0/120.0/110.0 with 160 damage

IS2 Armor: Frontal armor 375.0 Rear Armor: 205.0

34% chance to pen at point blank range for StuG's, and I'm sure that IS2 will leave you alone while sitting right in it's face were it can't miss

You still using stats to argue about things you've never seen ingame? Is it still your opinion that KV1s can take on Tigers or are you onto T34/76s at this point?

Actually Stug G is good stuff. I think it got overnerfed. I think it should get increased price and a better armor.

The things just aren't durable enough to be worth the 80 fuel.

I remember StuGs in CoH1 being nasty beasts with good armor and strong guns, but a single m8 could kill one because they had no turret.

The dynamics between assault guns and tanks is very much muddied in CoH2.

^StuG IVs in CoH1 couldn't hit the broad side of a barn....

I missed this post by holy crap my sides have entered the 9th dimension, StuG's to counter IS2's.

StuG Ausf G Pen: 130.0/120.0/110.0 with 160 damage

IS2 Armor: Frontal armor 375.0 Rear Armor: 205.0

34% chance to pen at point blank range for StuG's, and I'm sure that IS2 will leave you alone while sitting right in it's face were it can't miss

So you should watch some pro level games where 2-3 Stugs have done well against IS2s or you can try them yourself but this would require you to play 1 v 1.

1.Then buff mg42.And making grens 5 man won't beat rifle as dps remains SAME.Ostheer needs osme option against earlygame rifle slaughter.

2.Ost tech plus building to t2 which u must vs usf due to light vehicle -wasted manpower.Usf free unit on top of that-enough said.Play ost u'll know how it feels to be outnumbered.

3.Sov only tech 1 building and reliant on all-ins.Ost panther locked out.T3 and T4 both require heavy teching in manpower.Ostheer tech requires highest manpower-around 800.

4.And now ost is near defenseless vs usf light vehicle,and p4 ,stugs useless as usual vs jackson and easy 8.

How will making Grens 5 man squad make a difference? Dont even give me that wipe out argument its all RNG related.

I have seen many pro level games where USF light vehicles are easily taken down by mines, paks and fausts (Not to mention they are useless in 3 v 3+ games). On the contrary, Osth is my most played faction but I have taken a break from Axis as it was too easy to win.

If you are aiming for a Osth Panther than you don't have to spend the MP to building T3, just tech. After WFA there are only 3-4 commanders left in Sov army that competitive.

Jackson is the only viable AT USF has against heavies and its not God like KT is. Jackson is a glass cannon that can be taken down by PGs and Paks. When I play Osth I have no problem with them bc they will lack in Anti infantry Sherman or Scots if they spam it.

3.320 MP 60 Fuel for BP 2 and the building versus USF 200 MP and 50 Fuel for LT. This takes much longer than the USF who do not need to be at base to build anything and USF starts with more fuel by 5 and generally have better map control, increasing said fuel income.

USF starting Fuel 15
Ost Starting Fuel 20

Its the other way around. And of course simplifying it assuming everybody should always exclusivley go LT. Thats the meta but not always going to be the case. In which case Capt plus Major is not cheap teching at all.

Typical first rushed T34/76 10-12 Minutes
First Rushed Sherman 13-16 Minutes.

So really USF gets a Free squad. Not significantly cheaper tech.

Dont disagree that they stomp ost though.

You still using stats to argue about things you've never seen ingame? Is it still your opinion that KV1s can take on Tigers or are you onto T34/76s at this point?

No, but if you check the stats you will see I'm right. And if you use StuG's to counter IS2 your going to have a far worse time than using a KV1 to counter a Tiger, because there is actually a chance a Tiger can get a bounce off your armor. But the thing to be scared about isn't the KV1 itself as we know...

How will making Grens 5 man squad make a difference? Dont even give me that wipe out argument its all RNG related.

I have seen many pro level games where USF light vehicles are easily taken down by mines, paks and fausts (Not to mention they are useless in 3 v 3+ games). On the contrary, Osth is my most played faction but I have taken a break from Axis as it was too easy to win.

If you are aiming for a Osth Panther than you don't have to spend the MP to building T3, just tech. After WFA there are only 3-4 commanders left in Sov army that competitive.

Jackson is the only viable AT USF has against heavies and its not God like KT is. Jackson is a glass cannon that can be taken down by PGs and Paks. When I play Osth I have no problem with them bc they will lack in Anti infantry Sherman or Scots if they spam it.

Gren's/Pgrens have a 5 man squad would make Ostheer consistent with other factions, which is good as I fail to see the reason why they still should only be stuck at 4 men when you can still keep the DPS and Damage the same even if you add models.

It would just make it easier to preserve units.

No, but if you check the stats you will see I'm right. And if you use StuG's to counter IS2 your going to have a far worse time than using a KV1 to counter a Tiger, because there is actually a chance a Tiger can get a bounce off your armor. But the thing to be scared about isn't the KV1 itself as we know...




Gren's/Pgrens have a 5 man squad would make Ostheer consistent with other factions, which is good as I fail to see the reason why they still should only be stuck at 4 men when you can still keep the DPS and Damage the same even if you add models.

It would just make it easier to preserve units.

How are using Stugs vs IS2 worse than Kv1 vs Tiger? Stugs have long range, ROF and amazing Vet 1 ability not to mention they are really cheap.

I still don't see a reason for a 5 man squad, why not make VG 4 man instead so we can have some authenticity?

How are using Stugs vs IS2 worse than Kv1 vs Tiger? Stugs have long range, ROF and amazing Vet 1 ability not to mention they are really cheap.

I still don't see a reason for a 5 man squad, why not make VG 4 man instead so we can have some authenticity?

Because in the current bunching/dumb pathing meta indirect fire weapons are very powerful, and guess which side has the most plentiful indirect fire?

You can keep a squads DPS/damage the same and give them more men you know, them having more models just makes stupid squad wipes totally out of a players control less likely.

StuG's are fragile, and have no turret. The reason the KV1 can take a few hits is it's above average armor, and high health. It's not a true "Heavy Tank" but it is powerful against anything smaller than a Tiger, it's ability to also bounce fausts is quite good to.

EDIT: If we want authenticity can we please give OKW some howitzers? They had a shitload of artillery in the Bulge

Pre WFA Wermacht vs Soviet matchup was quite balanced, except maybe few things.

Then two factions were added to the mix and suddenly vanila faction teching, which previously was fine, became too expensive (or too weak for cost), which lead to call-in meta.

I'd say that it is new factions that should be tweaked, not the old ones.

callins were a problem before the march patch for soviets but they had pretty much fixed it with the huge patch, iirc.

USF starting Fuel 15
Ost Starting Fuel 20

I'm generally assuming Ost made their T1 which is 10 fuel.

I'm generally assuming Ost made their T1 which is 10 fuel.

Then your comparing apples to oranges. T1 as you know gives you a wide selction of units. T0 just sucks. There really is no major tech advantage with the USF.

Other than their teching is mostly viable. Its not cheap. And they get a Free unit with each Tier. Not sure why the Myth of cheap teching is applied to USF. With Soviets fuel start its about the same.

OKW has the cheap as hell discount super tech. And Ost just eats up some more MP really. And T3 for Ost lacks viability against Jacksons and T4 is just like the USF getting LT, Cap, and Major. I.e. Overpriced.

T1 leaves them with Mortar, MG, Sniper Gren. LT gives MG, M15, M20. So really T0 plus LT is more like half of T1, T2 Ostheer. Without the free LT it would really be a bid disadvantage financially I would expect.

I guess what I am getting at is its flexibility tax for Ostheer. Not that its fair or balanced but you must admit the T0, T1, T2 Ostheer unit lineup is much better then the T0/LT of USF. The only way for USF to match it really would be T0/LT/Captain which of course costs boat loads more then Ostheers tech with similar unit line ups.

USF may have less units, but those less unit vastly out preform what ever Ostheer can make. The issue isn't a lack of things to build, it's a lack of viable things to build. And even then your still sitting at a disadvantage till the very absolute latest part of the game.

USF may have less units, but those less unit vastly out preform what ever Ostheer can make.

lmg grens beat rifles consistently if you know how to use them.

Think b4 u replay.

Kinda don't want to hear your apologetic bullshit

lmg grens beat rifles consistently if you know how to use them.

Is this some kind of shitty attempt at trolling or something because im not impressed