"Blobbing"

There is a difference between having squads completely alone on opposite sides of the map and strategic troop placement to take a specific point on the map.

I believe the people here are making the case that blobbing is more effective than strategic troop placement (which takes micro and decision making) because the counters to blobbing aren't reliable enough for the time/resources they take to implement vs someone who only has to attack move.

Blobbing exists, and you will never be able to get people to stop doing it. You can give people counters to it, a and a LOT of counters current exist for Soviet's. The amount of options as far as anti blobbing goes are this.

Soviet > OKW > USF > Ostheer.

Current CoH1 play has actually struck a nice balance of blob strength vs. smart positional play strength. Blobbing was weak in the vanilla matchup for years, and currently only American blobs vs. PE are problematic. Brit blobs are a little too difficult to punish relative to their strength, but they're still no problem to deal with for a competent Wehrmacht player and properly microed Brit infantry is far stronger. The problem with American blobs vs. PE is the fact that in that matchup, blobbing for Americans is both easier and stronger than bothering with proper positioning.

Making blobs easy to use but hard to counter isn't really the issue in my opinion; rather, problems come up when blobbing is both easier and more powerful than more difficult-to-execute play.

Agree with above that using all your units (spread in cover) to take a single point is ideal and not a problem. What irritates people is when a single ctrl group (the blob) gets the same or even better results. The advantage of the blob is you never forget a unit (!) and maximize dps to constantly win engagements. The disadvantage is that you might take heavy losses - but then again you might not, and if you don't there's not really a downside...

Suggests to discourage blobing:

- All factions get demo charges

- The amount of indirect fire each faction has is increased

- Artillery pieces become better at area denial.

- MG's become more potent but more expensive, that way people can't spam maxims in place of making actual infantry

- Make tanks cost much less man power to encourage people to spend pop cap on gettings tanks instead of endless waves of cons/volks/rifles

- Get rid of the OKW fuel penalty, increase tier buildings cost accordingly, keep unit costs the same

Another problem is how godly offmap is vs. static structures that are supposed to hold back blobs. The same offmap arty is next to useless against a swarm of infantry as everyone and their grandmother can get out of the way by the time the shells fall.

And im not so sure about mg-42 winning againts 5 squads head on. Im pretty sure it wouldn't.

I tend to exaggerate But I'm pretty sure that you wouldn't get away with sending 2-3 squads in one blob to an MG42 in cover, whereas in CoH2 that is perfectly viable. They don't even have to be elite infantry, regular riflemen will do the job.

Just noticed today that USF with BAR / Hit the dirt can suppress mgs.

I haven't seen this a lot so i don't know who would win. But my thoughts at the time were WTF relic...

Seems to just nullify the mg even more..

Just noticed today that USF with BAR / Hit the dirt can suppress mgs.

I haven't seen this a lot so i don't know who would win. But my thoughts at the time were WTF relic...

Seems to just nullify the mg even more..

I'm assuming you mean .30 cals?

I'm assuming you mean .30 cals?

Maybe, not sure.

I don't save replays ( try improve performance ), so i couldn't go back and check..

M1919's can become suppressive MG's for reasons. Not BAR's ^^^

M1919's can become suppressive MG's for reasons. Not BAR's ^^^

Point being you have a unit that is suppressing another unit who's primary job is to suppress units.

Design seems illogical.

I am sure there is a fucking reason...

And i did say i didn't save replay so i couldn't check.....

Point being you have a unit that is suppressing another unit who's primary job is to suppress units.

Design seems illogical.

When i say "for reasons"...

I mean there is no reason. Or else i would have listed a reason - since only Relic knows why.

I don't think blobbing is a problem. I think shreks are the problem. When your infantry blob can counter infantry AND tanks, there's a problem. The allied blob gets shat on from a great height vs an axis one because of this and because they are better at long range. Make shreks as crappy as the bazooka or ptrs. Its not like axis need even more AT. I wouldn't be so afraid of the axis blob if I knew my tanks wouldn't get shredded in seconds.

I don't think blobbing is a problem. I think shreks are the problem. When your infantry blob can counter infantry AND tanks, there's a problem. The allied blob gets shat on from a great height vs an axis one because of this and because they are better at long range. Make shreks as crappy as the bazooka or ptrs. Its not like axis need even more AT. I wouldn't be so afraid of the axis blob if I knew my tanks wouldn't get shredded in seconds.

We have to define blobbing. As discussed, "Infantry heavy build" are fine. You can call it tactical blobbing, smart blobbing, infantry positioning or whatever, it's fine in my book. You might disagree but look at Rome, he blobs, but he uses good positioning, flank etc. That's fine. M1919Rifles/Obers rushing your MG frontally is not fine.

But, the blobs being able to mindlessly A-move to your MGs is the problem. People tend to blame OKW all the time, but double BAR (or even worse, double M1919 rifles), Shocks, Obers, veted LMG grens are all problematic. Although Schreck blobs are Over-performing (mostly due to Laser guided missiles at late game), mid game USF and Soviet are too powerful. So it's not only because of OKW (everyone just blames OKW), it's because of mindless blobbing is rewarding and very easy to perform for average players. While USF and Soviet have AI blobs, OKW has both AI (obers) and AT (volks) blobbing options.

There are A lot of good suggestions regarding the mindless blobbing issue (I want to coin the phrase if it is not already coined because infantry heavy is a different thing) but most of them require faction overhauls, and let's face it it's unlikely. Some minor changes which are easy to implement/tweak that I've seen are:

Regarding all MGs:
Show Spoiler

Axis MGs:
Show Spoiler

Maxim:
Show Spoiler
M2HMG:
Show Spoiler


These are some of good suggestions I've seen here and there. I just pointed out those easy to tweak for the balance team

* Changes to infantry:
These Ideas have been discussed and I think some of them are good, but I don't know if Relic is willing to change the game this much:

Show Spoiler


There are a lot more good ideas regarding the mindless blobbing issue, I just stated ones that I like/remember/are easily possible. We all know that it takes a lot of time for relic to change things, so I wanted to discuss the easiest way to balance the game without considering overhaul.

PS: Sorry for the wall of text (tried to compensate with Spoilers). I just thought now that Relic is (apparently) reading these threads more often, it might be good to gather all the suggestions I've seen.
PPS: Please do not think about realism these changes were suggested by their OPs with gameplay in mind.

Good ideas. I'm not against blobbing itself, my point was more that I'm not in favor of having ultimate blobs that can wreck tanks and infantry with high efficiency like the axis blobs can. Tanks should be the counter to infantry. AT infantry should be able to competently counter light vehicles, not medium and heavies.

Nerf shreks and decrease the price, buff raketen and then blob all you want.

Also to add to that list is suppression from mines. Dont know why that was left out from coh1.

Also to add to that list is suppression from mines. Dont know why that was left out from coh1.

As mentioned in my post, infantry reactions were more or less like explosion suppression, but you are right, I will add it to the list.

Good ideas. I'm not against blobbing itself, my point was more that I'm not in favor of having ultimate blobs that can wreck tanks and infantry with high efficiency like the axis blobs can. Tanks should be the counter to infantry. AT infantry should be able to competently counter light vehicles, not medium and heavies.

Nerf shreks and decrease the price, buff raketen and then blob all you want.

With the stated changes, M2HMG becomes very powerful and can effectively suppress the axis AT blob, so you can bring in your Shermans to finish them off. Although OKW balance has been discussed in other threads and there are a lot of feasible ideas.

I would prefer it if Relic started implementing some of these changes. At least have them do something. Surely it doesn't take months of testing to bring out balance patches. Is there one guy doing all of it? Even if there was, I'd like to point out Cruzz's Kappatch.

The Feb balance patch better herald in an era of peace for all mankind and cure cancer based on how long it's taking. Not to mention issues that have existed since launch.

...
The Feb balance patch better herald in an era of peace for all mankind and cure cancer based on how long it's taking. Not to mention issues that have existed since launch.

Hah, that got me.