A Suggestion For Panther Balance

The panther needs some kind of nerf becouse it always gets away from being destroyed. It has blitz/smoke/high reverse speed, high HP, too thick armor.

It needs kinda of indirect nerf so it does not get away from a well executed ambush.

A well executed ambush should be rewarded like being too agressive with panther should be punishing.

WTF are you blabbering. at one point the panther had 1280 hp 60 range and only costed 145 fuel.

And during this period it didnt have godlike Penetration to ensure 100% Pens on all things Allied save for a small chance for an IS2 to bounce it.

Thats what I am Blabbering on about you little twit.

And during this period it didnt have godlike Penetration to ensure 100% Pens on all things Allied save for a small chance for an IS2 to bounce it.

Thats what I am Blabbering on about you little twit.

LOL back it would flatout curb stomp the is 2 as the is had a reload of 9 seconds. rose coloured glasses much mate? the current panther is but a shadow what it once was.

LOL back it would flatout curb stomp the is 2 as the is had a reload of 9 seconds. rose coloured glasses much mate? the current panther is but a shadow what it once was.

Yet I never much had a problem since MATE the SU85 also wasnt nerfed now was it? Remember reverse with focus sites at the same speed? Mark Vehicle leveling (50% DPS not 30 as it is now) them left right and center? Soviet mines being Atom bombs. Sniper cars? Button actually being useful..

The Panther had crap impact then as they do now for OKW. First tank out. USF without mines unless they pay for a goddamn 350 MP tech locked Engineer unit to lay them. Units with less Penetration than even the current shadow of its former self SU85.

Backed up by the first unit to make STs look like conscipts. Yes rose colored glasses indeed.

I wouldn't mind if the Ostheer Panther got changed to have less armour and a different ability instead of blitz IF it got a rate-of-fire boost to compensate for its terrible DPS. Considering how often this thing is moving to get at its targets, missing shots with it hurts. Watching the Panther trying to kill anything at 640+ hp when you include misses is painful.

OKW, maybe, but I'm not sure since I rarely play them and I don't know what will happen once of if the Obers and Volks get the nerfs they need.

I wouldn't mind if the Ostheer Panther got changed to have less armour and a different ability instead of blitz IF it got a rate-of-fire boost to compensate for its terrible DPS. Considering how often this thing is moving to get at its targets, missing shots with it hurts. Watching the Panther trying to kill anything at 640+ hp when you include misses is painful.

OKW, maybe, but I'm not sure since I rarely play them and I don't know what will happen once of if the Obers and Volks get the nerfs they need.

Thats all the Panther needed before they reverted its armor and blitz nerf. Its ROF has always sucked. It SHOULD be better. But as it stands its a Juggernaut that 9/10 times just chases your armor down for the kill. Once the target has been identified just drive right in and bounce all its shots until its dead. If RNG is on your side you wont even have much to repair.

Ostheer I really cant see that Panther being nerfed until T4 cost is lowered. But OKW has the late war rushed Steel and welding. So there is your lore reason

Poor panther has to deal with multiple tanks when it arrives now you guys want to take away the only thing that lets it get away and recover??

Poor panther has to deal with multiple tanks when it arrives now you guys want to take away the only thing that lets it get away and recover??

How Panther must deal with more than 1 tank if it hits the field 2-3mins after first Sherman?

How Panther must deal with more than 1 tank if it hits the field 2-3mins after first Sherman?

well second tank would arrive in minutes but lone panther has to support multiple fronts till you can get another panther dont you think?

my point is its ok the way it is now.. SU85/Jacksons punish it pretty well..

Panther aim is terrible at max range not to mention long reload at max range so it makes up for it in better front armor..

The problem of panther lies in Blitzkrieg.

As OKW the first panther arrived early, but the second one took forever.

As Ostheer, The panther is fine, or even kinda too late/very costy.

The Ostheer panther needs a price reduction, but that just comes with the fact Ostheer teching is insanely dumb and costly. Honestly as long as we are sitting in this IS2 + Jackson spam meta the panthers performance is fine with me.

Thing's like mark target and T34/85s or IS2's do in fact exist everyone, the Panther has poor reload times. Make use of these things.

I think panther should just be 145 fuel. It was perfect price before relic changed it...

If your opponent is spamming Panthers get AT guns and AT grenades and laugh as he tries to use a Tank Hunter to kill infantry. Seriously there is really not all that much a panther can do about massed infantry, even a large amount of Zooks will fuck it up hard if you hit somewhere other than the front armor.

A person who over extendeds with Panthers is an idiot, and you should punish him with a nice AT grenade to the rear and some ZiS love.

I always see this argument. The Panther is not a tank hunter, it is a medium tank. It has two MGs, and it can do very decent damage against infantry at close range, not with its main gun, but with the MGs.

It's very capable of fighting off infantry on its own. You do not get that capability with any soviet or allied TDs.

I always see this argument. The Panther is not a tank hunter, it is a medium tank. It has two MGs, and it can do very decent damage against infantry at close range, not with its main gun, but with the MGs.

It's very capable of fighting off infantry on its own. You do not get that capability with any soviet or allied TDs.

If only there was a way to control the MG on it, because what it shoots at is anyone's guess if your fighting more than one squad at a time. Yes a Panther can in a perfect world with perfect micro kill an infantry unit, but if your sending single infantry units against a panther you probably have bigger issues than failing to grasp counters and how they work.

I would be more than fine with the Panther losing it's sure AT potential if Ostheer has other TD's like: [crickets]

Don't wanna go off-topic, but I somehow think this (along with many other balance issues) is related to VolksSpam

Panther for Ostheer is not worth it we all know that. The tech cost and the time it arrives has already been discussed, I think the issue here is OKW when they want to rush for panther.

When you want to rush for a panther, you must convert muni to fuel, which mean less abilities and fewer schreks. You also have to skip any other vehicle which makes you very vulnerable to light armor, most notably AAHT.

On the other hand, the major problem is after some point, OKW players brings in his panther, and starts to convert fuel to muni for schreks and abilities, and his Volk are now at least vet 3. That's where the problem starts. You either have to bring in Pack Howitzer (although somehow UP), Sherman or a Sherman Dozer to counter Volks/Obers or you have to bring in Jacksons and maybe ATGs. So fixing the schreck spam will -to some extent- fix the performance of Panther.

Bottom line, Panther itself is not OP, but it's arrival time for OKW is a little soon and for Ostheer is both too late and it's too damn expensive.

Panther for Ostheer is not worth it we all know that. The tech cost and the time it arrives has already been discussed, I think the issue here is OKW when they want to rush for panther.

knowing the OP, i think he is primarily or even exclusively talking about 3v3+. and ostheer t4 is very viable in 3v3+.

Thing's like mark target and T34/85s or IS2's do in fact exist everyone, the Panther has poor reload times. Make use of these things.

Doctrinal counters to a non-doctrinal tank.

knowing the OP, i think he is primarily or even exclusively talking about 3v3+. and ostheer t4 is very viable in 3v3+.

Oh, well I was talking about 1s and 2s. You're right, there is no fuel shortage in 3s and 4s. But considering IS2 and Jackson spam in larger games, I would say panther is not OP.

Doctrinal counters to a non-doctrinal tank.

Call in meta is king, thank you for stating the obvious. I'm sorry you can't go Irregular or Partisan tactics and hope to beat Medium/Heavy tanks.

Doctrinal counters to a non-doctrinal tank.

IMO, nothing wrong with this if you consider the game design. Soviets are designed to rely on their commanders. I'm not saying it's good or bad, just saying you can consider a doctrinal unit a hard and necessary counter for some non-doctrinal units. Although, this "heavy reliance" has made the call-in meta so viable.