its been said a million times and its the correct thing to do but relic are very stubborn in accepting mistakes ...
Remove Shreck from Volks
- This thread is locked
8 Feb 2015, 17:50 PM
#121
Posts: 371
Please relic and sega just take it easy with the dlc ...
8 Feb 2015, 20:16 PM
#122
Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1
The powerfulness of Shreck isn't the shreck itself or volks, just that OKW can spend all its ammo in it.
What make 1919 good but not that overpowered, the fact USF need ammo for many others abilities. Of course you can decide to invest all your ammo in it, but at the end, that's a strategic decision and it weaken you somewhere else.
Make volks shreck blob costing the same, but add or increase all other ammo prices of OKW abilites, add an ammo price to obers LMG, to falls, to jaigen to panzerfusiliers etc... and you' ll see a decrease of shreck spam. People will have to make strategic decisions again and decide how best invest ammo and fuel to have enough AI and AT on the field.
Today it is just easy to spend any single munitions point on shreck since you know you'll have ammo free AI stuff.
What make 1919 good but not that overpowered, the fact USF need ammo for many others abilities. Of course you can decide to invest all your ammo in it, but at the end, that's a strategic decision and it weaken you somewhere else.
Make volks shreck blob costing the same, but add or increase all other ammo prices of OKW abilites, add an ammo price to obers LMG, to falls, to jaigen to panzerfusiliers etc... and you' ll see a decrease of shreck spam. People will have to make strategic decisions again and decide how best invest ammo and fuel to have enough AI and AT on the field.
Today it is just easy to spend any single munitions point on shreck since you know you'll have ammo free AI stuff.
8 Feb 2015, 20:29 PM
#123
Posts: 1439
If your using a Puma to counter medium tanks, as in you got it to counter mediums then you are insane. The Puma's issue is not that is bad per say, it's just like Iv been saying again and again is that it just doesn't scale well for it's cost. Jacksons eat it alive, and if you fuck up microing it or it gets AT naded it can die pretty fast.
It call comes down to the same issue, as long as OKW has a fuel penalty people will -always- spam shreks, people will -never- get the Jadgpanzer, and taking away shreks will keeping the core of OKW the same is dumb as the whole faction is designed around the fuel penalty and on being very choosy with your tank build order.
You want to see less blobbing? You want to see less shrek spam? Then make it so you have alternatives, stop trying to shoe horn this dumb idea that OKW has these wealth of alternatives when they simply don't in competitive games.
Are you trying to argue with unit design or what? Puma has been design to fight medium armour and does it extremely well. The more Vet it gets the more potent it is. I had Puma winning games for me. One game against Soviet that went T4 I build only Pumas and destroyed him. Other game (2v2) I had 2 Pumas (one gained Vet5 feeding on Shermans and T-34) and they were able to scare IS-2 off since IS-2 turret rotates slower than Puma is circling it. When handled correctly Puma will threat almost every allied unit. You can take Jacksons, Shermans, T-34 - whatever. It has speed, it has range, it has penetration. It will be at disadvenatge against heavies but it was never designed to handle them.
Stop arguing when you have no clue. There is no point of changing something that is not broken. It's not Puma that's bad it's you or the way you handle it.
8 Feb 2015, 20:34 PM
#124
Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2
Permanently Banned
so it need to hang back like the m10/m36 with its awesome 80 penetration.
If i see somebody buying a puma i say they are fucking nuts.
Are you fucking Retarded?
Ive never! EVER! lost a puma to an m36/m10
Jesus u must be complete trash to not be able to use smoke ( its get out of jail free card)
puma wins a against a jackson and an m10 if u learn how to micro.
Jesus christ man. you've said some dumb shit. But this takes the cake.
You can no longer be taken seriously
There is no recording in all WW2 history of a piat actually knocking off a vehicle. Yes, it was THAT bad.
8 Feb 2015, 21:38 PM
#125
Posts: 1130
Are you trying to argue with unit design or what? Puma has been design to fight medium armour and does it extremely well. The more Vet it gets the more potent it is. I had Puma winning games for me. One game against Soviet that went T4 I build only Pumas and destroyed him. Other game (2v2) I had 2 Pumas (one gained Vet5 feeding on Shermans and T-34) and they were able to scare IS-2 off since IS-2 turret rotates slower than Puma is circling it. When handled correctly Puma will threat almost every allied unit. You can take Jacksons, Shermans, T-34 - whatever. It has speed, it has range, it has penetration. It will be at disadvenatge against heavies but it was never designed to handle them.
Stop arguing when you have no clue. There is no point of changing something that is not broken. It's not Puma that's bad it's you or the way you handle it.
Grats i have similar stories of useful puma against incompetent players. managed to kill an is2. But once again you admit you used a puma against unsupported armour. big fucking deal one at nade would have destroyed your strat instantly.
But as i said before compare the m10 to the puma. same dps similar hp but a rather massive difference between penetration especially if vet 1 comes to play. the puma is an extremely risky investment. have no defensive power limited assault abilities safe for flanking or unsupported armour. not worth i take the far more flexible panther or the jp4 for defence. and until the puma gets a penetration buff allowing me to take medium armour from the front its waste of space against good players.
@queenratchet you really are a moron.
horrida flamma bella
8 Feb 2015, 21:42 PM
#126
Posts: 1130
The powerfulness of Shreck isn't the shreck itself or volks, just that OKW can spend all its ammo in it.
What make 1919 good but not that overpowered, the fact USF need ammo for many others abilities. Of course you can decide to invest all your ammo in it, but at the end, that's a strategic decision and it weaken you somewhere else.
Make volks shreck blob costing the same, but add or increase all other ammo prices of OKW abilites, add an ammo price to obers LMG, to falls, to jaigen to panzerfusiliers etc... and you' ll see a decrease of shreck spam. People will have to make strategic decisions again and decide how best invest ammo and fuel to have enough AI and AT on the field.
Today it is just easy to spend any single munitions point on shreck since you know you'll have ammo free AI stuff.
And that will work do you think? in fact this may cause the okw to be even more powerful. or do you think obers and fsj will remain 50 mp a piece? in the long term it will cause even faster vet for the obers and fsj with lower popcap and perhaps of facing 2-3 squads you are going to face 4-5 squads. Since the okw really doesnt have good ammo arty or abilities i tend to float ammo midgame.
horrida flamma bella
8 Feb 2015, 21:42 PM
#127
Posts: 1439
What? Puma has no problems penetrating medium armour. You got it confused with missed shots mate.
8 Feb 2015, 21:45 PM
#128
Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2
Permanently Banned
@queenratchet you really are a moron.
Nice dodge.
But you are still clueless. How could you think the puma is useless while keeping a straight face? I should have listened to katitof long ago.
Your a troll
There is no recording in all WW2 history of a piat actually knocking off a vehicle. Yes, it was THAT bad.
8 Feb 2015, 22:03 PM
#129
Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1
And that will work do you think? in fact this may cause the okw to be even more powerful. or do you think obers and fsj will remain 50 mp a piece?
Yes, why not? that would be the correct price, the one made when OKW was really struggling in munition and fuel.
The real fact there is we hadn't this issue of volks spam when OKW was really struggling in munition, not like now. And so any other units around had a good price because it was hard to play the faction.
Now I understand perfectly that OKW meta wasn't good at that time, probably not funny to play because it was constraining too much players into a unique playstyle.
Now we are in the exact opposite with OKW floating in munition, so we need a middle, what we call a balance you know. Today OKW players don't make more decision, that simply 100% ammo invest on shreck until you have 3-4 squads and next you can switch full fuel since you don't need munition anymore.
The balance between that is clearly to let players make the decision where they want to invest their munition but make sure all their decision will have a downside. More shreck AT, less AI, more AI, less AT. That simple.
8 Feb 2015, 22:51 PM
#130
Posts: 612
How did this thread get so far,everyone knows Relic will not make any major changes such as removing, adding, or moving upgrades, abilities, units etc. They only ever modify unit stats.
quite simply its pointless to ask and allow flame wars to start.
quite simply its pointless to ask and allow flame wars to start.
8 Feb 2015, 22:53 PM
#131
Posts: 2115 | Subs: 1
How did this thread get so far,everyone knows Relic will not make any major changes such as removing, adding, or moving upgrades, abilities, units etc. They only ever modify unit stats.
quite simply its pointless to ask and allow flame wars to start.
Well, they did before WFA was actually released (Alpha)..
servant to the vet 5 königskübel
b4 and soviet FHQ enthusiast
fan of the illustrious black prince
b4 and soviet FHQ enthusiast
fan of the illustrious black prince
8 Feb 2015, 23:07 PM
#132
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
How did this thread get so far,everyone knows Relic will not make any major changes such as removing, adding, or moving upgrades, abilities, units etc. They only ever modify unit stats.
quite simply its pointless to ask and allow flame wars to start.
Well, they have changed brummbars vet1 ability so there is that.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
8 Feb 2015, 23:16 PM
#133
Posts: 1130
What? Puma has no problems penetrating medium armour. You got it confused with missed shots mate.
Considering this unit has 80 penetration at max range it will take a while to kill any medium armor let alone the better 85/e8
a puma has better penetration close range but it loses a slug fest with any medium armour.
Thus once again have niche unit/ borderline useless okw unit. that can be only be used on flanks. Thats why 95 % of the time you dont see this unit.
horrida flamma bella
8 Feb 2015, 23:37 PM
#135
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
Are you trying to argue with unit design or what? Puma has been design to fight medium armour and does it extremely well. The more Vet it gets the more potent it is. I had Puma winning games for me. One game against Soviet that went T4 I build only Pumas and destroyed him. Other game (2v2) I had 2 Pumas (one gained Vet5 feeding on Shermans and T-34) and they were able to scare IS-2 off since IS-2 turret rotates slower than Puma is circling it. When handled correctly Puma will threat almost every allied unit. You can take Jacksons, Shermans, T-34 - whatever. It has speed, it has range, it has penetration. It will be at disadvenatge against heavies but it was never designed to handle them.
Stop arguing when you have no clue. There is no point of changing something that is not broken. It's not Puma that's bad it's you or the way you handle it.
Just because you play against terrible players doesn't mean you know what you are talking about. You know what would have countered those mediums a million times better? Shreks. You know what does well against IS2's? The Panther, Jadgpanzer will also do work.
Stop trying to sell people this retarded bullshit that just because you beat a idiot using them, or got insanely lucky with penetration that the Puma is worth 70 fuel at a reduced income when could be spending that fuel on something that has a lot better transition mid to late game.
8 Feb 2015, 23:43 PM
#136
Posts: 149
Puma up? Seriously? That thing wrecks allied stock mediums unless you play it wrong. It has good survivability since it has smoke. And quityerbitchin about pen rates. Try Jacksons vs heavies and then we might talk. Puma out ranges everything that isn't a td. To quote many better men than me "L2P issue."
I still fail to grasp how okw would fall apart if shreks were moved to sturms. You'd get a snare and ai upgrade for volks and everybody always has 2 sturms by mid anyway. You'd have 4 shreks still, where is the problem? Also your raketenwerfer would get buffed too. This would add a bit of depth to the faction, not cripple it.
God forbid you can't get the best at weapon on your cheap nigh invincible infantry.
I still fail to grasp how okw would fall apart if shreks were moved to sturms. You'd get a snare and ai upgrade for volks and everybody always has 2 sturms by mid anyway. You'd have 4 shreks still, where is the problem? Also your raketenwerfer would get buffed too. This would add a bit of depth to the faction, not cripple it.
God forbid you can't get the best at weapon on your cheap nigh invincible infantry.
PL#freeKatitofPL
9 Feb 2015, 00:30 AM
#137
Posts: 612
Well, they have changed brummbars vet1 ability so there is that.
Right oh I forgot about that.
1 major change that had nothing to do with numbers
9 Feb 2015, 01:56 AM
#139
Posts: 322
God forbid you can't get the best at weapon on your cheap nigh invincible infantry.
And here lies the problem;
Vet 1: -10% received accuracy
Vet 3: -10% received accuracy Healing when out of combat
Vet 5: -29% received accuracy
Vet 5 volks have near -50% received accuracy, on top of a squad that has 1 Shreck.
If volks loose the shreck however there will be no reason to build them over sturmpios.
Adjusting the vet is the way to go, While Panzergrens have dual Shrecks they are very vulnerable
T-34 can do a lot of damage to them.
In the end just make volks more vulnerable to fire 49% is a insane bonus.
9 Feb 2015, 03:50 AM
#140
4 
Posts: 4301 | Subs: 2
What? Puma has no problems penetrating medium armour. You got it confused with missed shots mate.
why even try to have a sane argument? gotta love ppl calling others noobs when they don't even have their playercards visible.
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