Remove Shreck from Volks

Asymetrical balance by Relic.
Hey, let's give Axis best tanks!
Let's give also best AT.
I guess it's not enough... So let's give them best infatry!

Axis factions are facing medium tanks mostly so let's give them handheld AT that can almost always penetrate front armor.
Allied factions are facing huge tanks so let's give them shitty handheld AT so they won't penetrate it!






Funny fact, 160 at long range vs most common USF tank, Sherman which has... 160 front armor!

On the other hand, bazooka with 110 penetration against 200-400+ armor.

Now do math.

The Panther and Tiger are both worse than the IS2, and the Puppchen is the worst dedicated AT unit in the game. The thing with allies is that while they might not have lots of heavy armor, they have a massive amount of excellent medium tanks that can really put the hurt on Axis throughout the game.

I agree it's dumb that it's very easy for allies in win in the first 10 minutes but that there is essentially a time limit on how long you can let OKW keep fuel before you just get assfucked by heavy tanks, but that's an issue with Allies and Axis, not with a single particular faction.

But again the reason Volks have shreks is that OKW lack any good dedicated AT that doesn't cost fuel, relic calls it the "Shrek Crutch" and have stated multiple times it's not going to get removed until they figure out some better ways to give OKW viable early to mid game AT.

The Panther and Tiger are both worse than the IS2, and the Puppchen is the worst dedicated AT unit in the game. The thing with allies is that while they might not have lots of heavy armor, they have a massive amount of excellent medium tanks that can really put the hurt on Axis throughout the game.

I agree it's dumb that it's very easy for allies in win in the first 10 minutes but that there is essentially a time limit on how long you can let OKW keep fuel before you just get assfucked by heavy tanks, but that's an issue with Allies and Axis, not with a single particular faction.

But again the reason Volks have shreks is that OKW lack any good dedicated AT that doesn't cost fuel, relic calls it the "Shrek Crutch" and have stated multiple times it's not going to get removed until they figure out some better ways to give OKW viable early to mid game AT.

Thats easy . simply mirror the puma's penetration to that of the m10. problem fixed and the shrek can become a supportive AT.

Thats easy . simply mirror the puma's penetration to that of the m10. problem fixed and the shrek can become a supportive AT.

Would this change go hand in hand with removing shrek from volks?

If so, that's a bad idea. All the Allies would need to do is get an AT gun + an engine crit and your AT is gone.

Would this change go hand in hand with removing shrek from volks?

If so, that's a bad idea. All the Allies would need to do is get an AT gun + an engine crit and your AT is gone.

Same goes for the jackson or m10 mate

Easy fix:

1. Properly scale vet gain with vehicle v infantry damage. Currently infantry with AT weapons get max vet instantly while anti-inf vehicles will never vet from inf kills.

2. Prevent or scale vet bonuses intended for small arms from being applied to AT weapons. Shreks never miss because they get the massive accuracy bonuses intended for small arms.

That right there would be largely fix the problem. Here's some additional stuff:

Buff puppchen by reducing it's oddly huge aim time compared to other AT weapons. Remove the received accuracy bonus from all weapon teams.

Rework weapon dropping to scale per model killed instead of percent chance when there are more weapon slots than models. This is why Guards drop so many weapons they are unusable while Volks have a tiny chance to drop a shrek.

What's wrong with Puppchen isn't just aim times, it's poor accuracy, and having a very fragile weapons crew. The rocket most of the time just blows up on the world scenery instead of hitting it's intended target.

They way volks perform, they should cost 240mp. And when they reach vet 4, should cost 32mp to reinforce.

Zooks should perform on par with shreks or vise versa

Or if relic knew how to balance it would be simple.

Shreks:

High pen with normall damage

But with huge inaccuracy at med to long ranges

Zook:

Average pen with normal damage

Very accurate even at med to long ranges

Is2 is literally the only Real threat to volks. Even an IS2 can be forced back.

Lol. Yes, a Volkblob forces you to be careful with medium tanks, if its 1-2 squads you have nothing to fear. Go in and run them over, if your micro is semi decent they will never get more than one shot off.

Lol. Yes, a Volkblob forces you to be careful with medium tanks, if its 1-2 squads you have nothing to fear. Go in and rum them over, if your micro is semi decent they will never get more than one shot off.

I find that letting volks fire all volley at infantry first will help. But this wont do much. Ur tanks will till need to pull back. even if u crush.

Volks are 5 man units that are very durable. They can safley reatreat. Unless the allied player is floating fuel an MP. he will not sacrifice his tanks to chase and face many threats.

Panther or another tank

Mines

Or if the volks retreat to the base. OKW flaq damages the tanks too much. Same goes with Flak HQ.

The result is always the same. allied player must pull back his tanks.

While an OKW player could safley brinng any tanks behind enemy lines to chase and kill retreating units.

Luchs comes to mind

Well, its usually not much of a problem to predict when a Panther is gonna hit the field, and of course that will govern your risktaking. In any case, your Sherman should be out alot earlier. Even if all you archieve is to kill a model or two and force a retreat, you will come out ahead, at least as US. Pull back a little, self-repair, rinse and repeat, push him off the map. Schreckblobs are annoying as fuck, but I don't find them all that hard to deal with. .50 cals actually work like a charm against them. With Obers in the mix, different story admittedly.

Well, its usually not much of a problem to predict when a Panther is gonna hit the field, and of course that will govern your risktaking. In any case, your Sherman should be out alot earlier. Even if all you archieve is to kill a model or two and force a retreat, you will come out ahead, at least as US. Pull back a little, self-repair, rinse and repeat, push him off the map. Schreckblobs are annoying as fuck, but I don't find them all that hard to deal with. .50 cals actually work like a charm against them. With Obers in the mix, different story admittedly.

My point is OKW counters are wayy to effective. Vet5 volks are good at AI and AT.

Combine this with flak hq and obers.

Panther witch deals respectable AI damage. and is by far the best TD in the game.

KT witch i manage to get out every other game. Even in 1v1's

Most OKW units Have good multi-role abilities

Contrast this with USF for example.

Its either OR

USF doesnt have a tank that can counter Infantry and Tanks reliably (except Ez8, but even that has a hefty price tag)

This forces the player to make many choices and assult with combined arms.

While an OKW build order is 4 volks, 2 mg's, 2 obers, and a panther consitantly.

If u got two shermans to counter a shrek blob and obers. If a panther hits the field, its Game OVer

Or if the usf player desides to go for one sherman and a jackson to pray that RNG doesnt fuck him over and actually penetrate. One sherman may not be enough to fight the obers and volks.

So the obers combined with well placed mg's force constant retreats. Couple this with USF's lack of non-doc arty. The OKW player can safley camp.

On top of this. the panther comes anyway. Jackson bounces 2 shots. Volk blob roles up to kill jackson after obers sniped the 50cal. Forcing the sherman in absoluteness. Then the usf player has to make yet another choice. To get bars to kill volks or save for p47 to kill panther. Wilst in the back of the players mind he know that if the panther dies. he will just field a command panther or even KT.

This is trully flawed design IMO

The problem ultimately stems down to the fact is that you can't give a faction a very narrow selection of units on top of a resource penalty and hope that through the power of magic dust and fairies people aren't just going to spam like motherfuckers.

The Panther and Tiger are both worse than the IS2, and the Puppchen is the worst dedicated AT unit in the game. The thing with allies is that while they might not have lots of heavy armor, they have a massive amount of excellent medium tanks that can really put the hurt on Axis throughout the game.

I agree it's dumb that it's very easy for allies in win in the first 10 minutes but that there is essentially a time limit on how long you can let OKW keep fuel before you just get assfucked by heavy tanks, but that's an issue with Allies and Axis, not with a single particular faction.

But again the reason Volks have shreks is that OKW lack any good dedicated AT that doesn't cost fuel, relic calls it the "Shrek Crutch" and have stated multiple times it's not going to get removed until they figure out some better ways to give OKW viable early to mid game AT.

OST & SU were quite balanced. OST - long range SU - Close range. SU - biggest tank but OST Tigers is better at killing inf, speed, turret rotation.

Right know? Biggest tank? Axis. Best AT gun? Axis Best tak destroyer? Axis Best long-range inf? Axis Equal Best close-mid range inf? Axis.
Only on map arty is in favour for Allies.


Don't fortget that raketrn can retreat and can be deployed in buildings which is deadly sometimes.

The problem ultimately stems down to the fact is that you can't give a faction a very narrow selection of units on top of a resource penalty and hope that through the power of magic dust and fairies people aren't just going to spam like motherfuckers.

Narrow?
OKW have as wide selection as any other army, even wider as they have only 2 extremely situational units while other armies have plain useless ones.
Also, for a resource starved army, for some reason they can pump fastest armor in game with fastest tiering and additional bonuses cost-free for setting up said tiers while other factions need to pay for their utility additional costs. Doesn't sound too resource starved to me.

Narrow?
OKW have as wide selection as any other army, even wider as they have only 2 extremely situational units while other armies have plain useless ones.
Also, for a resource starved army, for some reason they can pump fastest armor in game with fastest tiering and additional bonuses cost-free for setting up said tiers while other factions need to pay for their utility additional costs. Doesn't sound too resource starved to me.

LOL most units within the okw army are simply not cost effective. basically only tier 3 units are.

I see fanboys saying the puma is good but compare it to the m10 . i see them saying the aa track is good but compare it to the us track. .

There are very few units that worthwhile in the okw army. also you wrong about pumping out armour but i expected nothing less from you.

LOL most units within the okw army are simply not cost effective. basically only tier 3 units are.

I see fanboys saying the puma is good but compare it to the m10 . i see them saying the aa track is good but compare it to the us track. .

There are very few units that worthwhile in the okw army. also you wrong about pumping out armour but i expected nothing less from you.

It's funny how you are calling all the people fan boys when all you do is defend Axis units. Aside from this, at least OKW has access to all its units and tiers, more choices regardless of cost efficiency when compared to SU teching.

I see fanboys saying the puma is good but compare it to the m10 . i see them saying the aa track is good but compare it to the us track.

The FlaK HT is extremely good at what it does, so is the Puma.

Let's compare the M10 to the Puma:

1. M10 is doctrinal
2. no smoke
3. no vet 1 ability that renders tanks useless for a decent amount of time
4. available after 7 CPs (much later than the Puma)
5. doesn't spot for itself

The only advantage the M10 has is its higher pen. Its armor is 120 which means that it will get penetrated by any axis unit anyway (apart from the Puma which has a chance of 66%).

Its higher pen is irrelevant because it has to fight against heavier armor (Panthers/JPIVs) when it arrives.

The AA HT is good against inf and light vehicles, the FlaK HT is extremely good vs infantry (+ it has smoke).

The FlaK HT doesn't have to show its rear armor to fire. The FlaK HT only costs 55 fuel whereas the AA HT costs 60 fuel + teching.

I really don't know why you think these Allied vehicles are better than their Axis counterparts.

The FlaK HT is extremely good at what it does, so is the Puma.

Let's compare the M10 to the Puma:

1. M10 is doctrinal
2. no smoke
3. no vet 1 ability that renders tanks useless for a decent amount of time
4. available after 7 CPs (much later than the Puma)
5. doesn't spot for itself

The only advantage the M10 has is its higher pen. Its armor is 120 which means that it will get penetrated by any axis unit anyway (apart from the Puma which has a chance of 66%).

Its higher pen is irrelevant because it has to fight against heavier armor (Panthers/JPIVs) when it arrives.

The AA HT is good against inf and light vehicles, the FlaK HT is extremely good vs infantry (+ it has smoke).

The FlaK HT doesn't have to show its rear armor to fire. The FlaK HT only costs 55 fuel whereas the AA HT costs 60 fuel + teching.

I really don't know why you think these Allied vehicles are better than their Axis counterparts.

Thats not a minor difference the m10 has a penetration of 140 at long range the puma 80. the m10 can penetrate nearly all medium armour with a usually success rate of 75% against p4's. the puma has only 50 % chance and dont even bother against e8 or 85's . the m10 can conformable snipe enemy medium tanks from range so it doesnt need smoke its simply lot easier to use without it. even then it gains flanking speed which is a smoke of its own . aimed shot is useful but so is ap rounds.

And 7 cp is moment when tanks start to appear. puma has no use early game. safe to hunt that pesky m20 which shreks will deal with anyway. all in all the m10 is the better medium TD by a long shot. denying that is stupid. also lol saying the flak track is good when the usf track has nearly triple the damage and mobility.

They way volks perform, they should cost 240mp. And when they reach vet 4, should cost 32mp to reinforce.

Zooks should perform on par with shreks or vise versa

Or if relic knew how to balance it would be simple.

Shreks:

High pen with normall damage

But with huge inaccuracy at med to long ranges

Zook:

Average pen with normal damage

Very accurate even at med to long ranges

Is2 is literally the only Real threat to volks. Even an IS2 can be forced back.

Very funny dude, thanks for the joke.
So the game should punish players preserve their squad, no wonder what a mess COH2 is, there is so many nice person in the community.

By this logic, vCOH US vet 3 Rifles after SY level 2 should having 60 reinforcing cost, since they are super terminators and US having unlimited manpower at that stage.