Remove Shreck from Volks

Well considering with out shreks volks are literal garbage that lose to every other infantry unit in the game I would say if your going to take away literally the only thing that makes them good they deserve a buff to keep them up to par.

I completely disagree.

Legitimate question : what gives you the slightest notion vet0 Volks should be good?

Cheapest non-engi infantry in the game, that requires NO TECHING whatsoever, a durable 5-man squad that can throw grenades and salvage and can reach veterancy 5.

In a faction with Kubels, Sturmpioneers and Obersoldaten (where most commanders ALSO have doctrinal infantry or MG43).

I completely disagree.

Legitimate question : what gives you the slightest notion vet0 Volks should be good?

Cheapest non-engi infantry in the game, that requires NO TECHING whatsoever, a durable 5-man squad that can throw grenades and salvage and can reach veterancy 5.

In a faction with Kubels, Sturmpioneers and Obersoldaten (where most commanders ALSO have doctrinal infantry or MG43).

They aren't durable at all at vet 0, and with out the shrek upgrade they would have very very little use past the first 7 minutes. They also on vet up so fast because of the shrek, it's pretty rare to see a Vet 5 OKW unit outside of Volks because it just takes such a massive amount of time when your only shooting at and damaging infantry.

The reason they should be good is that Sturmpio's are no were near as good as before, and the Kubel will die very fast if you don't micro it well. I would be perfectly fine with them getting pushed up to 240 MP if they were given a buff in return for losing the shrek.

The MG34 is also worse than the MG42 in every way until it reaches vet 3, before that all it has is a bigger firing ark.

EDIT: Think about what OKW is facing at the start of the game: Rifles were are bar none the best early infantry unit in the game and come out with no teching, con spam which is very easy to do, and then shocks which will normally come out before you get your scher up and Obers being produced to count.

They aren't durable at all at vet 0, and with out the shrek upgrade they would have very very little use past the first 7 minutes. They also on vet up so fast because of the shrek, it's pretty rare to see a Vet 5 OKW unit outside of Volks because it just takes such a massive amount of time when your only shooting at and damaging infantry.

The reason they should be good is that Sturmpio's are no were near as good as before, and the Kubel will die very fast if you don't micro it well. I would be perfectly fine with them getting pushed up to 240 MP if they were given a buff in return for losing the shrek.

The MG34 is also worse than the MG42 in every way until it reaches vet 3, before that all it has is a bigger firing ark.

EDIT: Think about what OKW is facing at the start of the game: Rifles were are bar none the best early infantry unit in the game and come out with no teching, con spam which is very easy to do, and then shocks which will normally come out before you get your scher up and Obers being produced to count.

By far the second best t0 inf in the game after Rifleman. They are awsome with awsome abilities.

Think about what OKW is facing at the start of the game: Rifles were are bar none the best early infantry unit in the game and come out with no teching, con spam which is very easy to do, and then shocks which will normally come out before you get your scher up and Obers being produced to count.

What do Schrecks have with Volks/Rifle or Volks/Con matchups or balance? Will removing Schrecks somehow impair Volks ability to fight them? Do Volks need obers to fight Shocks? I don't get it.

OKW early game against infantry is not a problem (Riflespam can be a bit overwhelming, but Ostheer has the same problem, so we know it's nothing Volks related). Schreck changes do not apply there.

EDIT: Think about what OKW is facing at the start of the game: Rifles were are bar none the best early infantry unit in the game and come out with no teching, con spam which is very easy to do, and then shocks which will normally come out before you get your scher up and Obers being produced to count.

I think you really underestimate the power of the Volks. If you are getting over run by infantry you can use the 10 munition grenade volley (in a number of commanders), pick a commander with an MG34, or use a Kubel. Volks in cover do great. Kubel against shocks is great. Force him to smoke early and then use volks to pick away at him. You can quickly move the kubel to keep the shocks from advancing, and if the kubel dies you still get the fuel back.

To top that they can build green cover, have a ton of abilities, get good grenades, are a large squad, get excellent vet bonuses, and are cheap. The upgrade to shreks also makes them potent against infantry in cover since they can blow the cover away quickly. Seriously what more do you want with this unit, it is the Swiss Army knife of units?

I agree with you that OKW needs a counter to early vehicles, but right now volks are straight up stupid. For cost they cannot be beat. As they scale in vet they become extremely potent, this is why we see volks blobs so often.

I think you really underestimate the power of the Volks. If you are getting over run by infantry you can use the 10 munition grenade volley (in a number of commanders), pick a commander with an MG34, or use a Kubel. Volks in cover do great. Kubel against shocks is great. Force him to smoke early and then use volks to pick away at him. You can quickly move the kubel to keep the shocks from advancing, and if the kubel dies you still get the fuel back.

To top that they can build green cover, have a ton of abilities, get good grenades, are a large squad, get excellent vet bonuses, and are cheap. The upgrade to shreks also makes them potent against infantry in cover since they can blow the cover away quickly. Seriously what more do you want with this unit, it is the Swiss Army knife of units?

I agree with you that OKW needs a counter to early vehicles, but right now volks are straight up stupid. For cost they cannot be beat. As they scale in vet they become extremely potent, this is why we see volks blobs so often.

Volks get beat out by every single baseline infantry unit in the game stat wise, of course at vet 0 which is the early game everyone starts in. And yes volks with commander upgrades are better, but still they can't stand up to Shocks/Rifle blobs alone.

The reason they scale so well dude is because they vet so fast due to 1. very lost cost unit, and 2. They have a very high damage weapon in the shrek. Take the shrek away and they are not nearly as good due to not being able to get vet.

What do Schrecks have with Volks/Rifle or Volks/Con matchups or balance? Will removing Schrecks somehow impair Volks ability to fight them? Do Volks need obers to fight Shocks? I don't get it.

OKW early game against infantry is not a problem (Riflespam can be a bit overwhelming, but Ostheer has the same problem, so we know it's nothing Volks related). Schreck changes do not apply there.

What shreks have to do is that it gives volks a reason to be built as opposed to say, more sturms or getting a second kubel. It also makes them useful late game as well. The problem is if you take away the thing that makes it good over the arch of the game, you need to give it something worth while to make people want to build it! And OKW has the same troubles Ostheer has early game, and especially on urban maps as OKW has no mortar/good indirect fire.

By far the second best t0 inf in the game after Rifleman. They are awsome with awsome abilities.

If you use a grenade you critically put back your first shrek, and Volks lose out to cons at medium close range every time. Yes they become more useful later on, so why take away what makes them better later on.

Volks get beat out by every single baseline infantry unit in the game stat wise, of course at vet 0 which is the early game everyone starts in. And yes volks with commander upgrades are better, but still they can't stand up to Shocks/Rifle blobs alone.

The reason they scale so well dude is because they vet so fast due to 1. very lost cost unit, and 2. They have a very high damage weapon in the shrek. Take the shrek away and they are not nearly as good due to not being able to get vet.



What shreks have to do is that it gives volks a reason to be built as opposed to say, more sturms or getting a second kubel. It also makes them useful late game as well. The problem is if you take away the thing that makes it good over the arch of the game, you need to give it something worth while to make people want to build it! And OKW has the same troubles Ostheer has early game, and especially on urban maps as OKW has no mortar/good indirect fire.

If you use a grenade you critically put back your first shrek, and Volks lose out to cons at medium close range every time. Yes they become more useful later on, so why take away what makes them better later on.

You dont necessarily have to give a cheap mainline infantry Shreks. Yes, Volks will be less spamed if you take the shreks away BUT you can give them either LMG or MPs with faust ability. With faust, OKW will have more of a reason to use Raket(assuming a buff after change) to finish off slowed down vehicles. The underlying problem Volks faces in early game is that they need faust, 1 shrek can hardly hold off M3s.

The reason they scale so well dude is because they vet so fast due to 1. very lost cost unit, and 2. They have a very high damage weapon in the shrek. Take the shrek away and they are not nearly as good due to not being able to get vet.

Played plenty of games in which I have not given my volks shreks and they gain vet fine.

The shrek allows them to leap frog to high levels of vet. How often do you see volks not get vet 5? Vet 5 should be hard to get and important if you do, not an automatic upgrade on a unit.

Played plenty of games in which I have not given my volks shreks and they gain vet fine.

The shrek allows them to leap frog to high levels of vet. How often do you see volks not get vet 5? Vet 5 should be hard to get and important if you do, not an automatic upgrade on a unit.

+1

When I played Cruzz's Kappatch I always got them to vet 4 relatively quick without any upgrades (only Pfausts).

In Automatch I always give them Shrecks though. The Raketenwerfer always disappoints me

You dont necessarily have to give a cheap mainline infantry Shreks. Yes, Volks will be less spamed if you take the shreks away BUT you can give them either LMG or MPs with faust ability. With faust, OKW will have more of a reason to use Raket(assuming a buff after change) to finish off slowed down vehicles. The underlying problem Volks faces in early game is that they need faust, 1 shrek can hardly hold off M3s.

Ostheer's mainline infantry unit has a LMG and faust and Ostheer has literally the worst early game of any faction. In what insane world do you think it's a brilliant idea to take a well preforming infantry unit, and make it just like the starting unit of the only other Axis faction.

The Pupchen should be buffed no matter if shreks are removed or not, as the thing is bloody garbage anyway you slice it. And I agree that Volks can't face M3's, you know why? Because pushing is a insanely dumb mechanic!

Played plenty of games in which I have not given my volks shreks and they gain vet fine.

The shrek allows them to leap frog to high levels of vet. How often do you see volks not get vet 5? Vet 5 should be hard to get and important if you do, not an automatic upgrade on a unit.

I agree with you, the shrek makes their vet problematic, remove it and they are fine. They will always gain vet faster than any other OKW unit (other than the MG34) because they are a cheap unit normally shooting at expensive things.

Well considering with out shreks volks are literal garbage that lose to every other infantry unit in the game I would say if your going to take away literally the only thing that makes them good they deserve a buff to keep them up to par.

You also understand the reason they are so resilient is because they vet up very fast from shrek use right? If you take the shrek away they won't vet nearly as fast and will scale more naturally like all other infantry in the game. Also an AT grenade bundle in place of a shrek would mean the only thing you need to do is have your sherman just kite out of the Volks small throw range.

Relic themselves have said it, the shrek is a crutch OKW needs due to the way the faction is designed, so removing that is a drastic change.

If you check Volks veterancy bonuses you will see that at Vet5 the are much stronger than Conscripts and Rifles without any upgrades. There goes your theory about Volks being weak. They don't get any weapon upgrades because OKW have access to super soldiers in the form of Obersoldaten.


Seriously man when I go through your posts I can see glaring L2P issues. Stuff you're writing like Puma is not worth getting, Sturmpios are weak, Kubel is no good, etc. You are mentioning very good OKW units and claiming they are all weak or not worth spending the resources on. Can you please tell me what is your preferred game mode? As play style between 1v1 and 3v3 generally differs this would help establish the base ground. I am talking in terms of 1v1 and 2v2 experience as these are th modes I regularly play.

Ostheer's mainline infantry unit has a LMG and faust and Ostheer has literally the worst early game of any faction. In what insane world do you think it's a brilliant idea to take a well preforming infantry unit, and make it just like the starting unit of the only other Axis faction.

The Pupchen should be buffed no matter if shreks are removed or not, as the thing is bloody garbage anyway you slice it. And I agree that Volks can't face M3's, you know why? Because pushing is a insanely dumb mechanic!

Ostheer struggles early game because OST doesn't have Kubels and free PGs. Teching is also too expensive.

It has nothing to do with fausts or LMGs lol.

Yes, the Puppchen should be buffed anyway.

If you check Volks veterancy bonuses you will see that at Vet5 the are much stronger than Conscripts and Rifles without any upgrades. There goes your theory about Volks being weak. They don't get any weapon upgrades because OKW have access to super soldiers in the form of Obersoldaten.

The point is that at vet 0, they lose out to every single mainline allied infantry unit. At vet 5 any OKW unit is great. If you want people to still make use of volks your going to HAVE to give them something that makes people want to make them, otherwise your just going to see Sturmpio spam and more Kubels.

The reason Volk's don't have AI weapon upgrade is because they already have an upgrade in the form of a shrek. Balance is a game of take and give, nerf and buff. Volks suck at AI early game but excel at taking out Vehicles when massed in numbers. The logical conclusion of taking away their purpose is that you have to give them a new one, or else you end up with the SU-76, a unit with no purpose.

Ostheer's mainline infantry unit has a LMG and faust and Ostheer has literally the worst early game of any faction. In what insane world do you think it's a brilliant idea to take a well preforming infantry unit, and make it just like the starting unit of the only other Axis faction.

The Pupchen should be buffed no matter if shreks are removed or not, as the thing is bloody garbage anyway you slice it. And I agree that Volks can't face M3's, you know why? Because pushing is a insanely dumb mechanic!

I don't think Grens with LMG and faust ability to be weak at all. You forgetting that VGs are a 5 man squad and are cheap to reinforce.

Ostheer struggles early game because OST doesn't have Kubels and free PGs. Teching is also too expensive.

It has nothing to do with fausts or LMGs lol.

Yes, the Puppchen should be buffed anyway.

Ostheer early game struggles because Rifles and massed cons will normally always whip your Grens, then you have a sniper which is bloody useless and the MG42 which doesn't preform nearly as good as it used to.

Seriously man when I go through your posts I can see glaring L2P issues. Stuff you're writing like Puma is not worth getting, Sturmpios are weak, Kubel is no good, etc. You are mentioning very good OKW units and claiming they are all weak or not worth spending the resources on. Can you please tell me what is your preferred game mode? As play style between 1v1 and 3v3 generally differs this would help establish the base ground. I am talking in terms of 1v1 and 2v2 experience as these are th modes I regularly play.

I said, that the Puma isn't often built because OKW relies on unit preservation so players tend to build something that is a little bit more durable at no point did I say the unit was bad. Sturmpio's are weak at range, they die very easy against cons at anything but point blank range. Their best ability is to kill garrisoned infantry if you walk them right up to the building. And I never said the Kubel was bad, merely that it is not as effective against a good player because of it's horrible pathing and control.

I don't think Grens with LMG and faust ability to be weak at all. You forgetting that VGs are a 5 man squad and are cheap to reinforce.

The point is what's the point of having a new faction if it's baseline infantry is just slightly cheaper with a 5 man squad but other wise has the exact same abilities? The reasons gren's aren't preforming well at the moment is they are quite fragile in the early game, volk's aren't some paragon of strength either.

The point is what's the point of having a new faction if it's baseline infantry is just slightly cheaper with a 5 man squad but other wise has the exact same abilities? The reasons gren's aren't preforming well at the moment is they are quite fragile in the early game, volk's aren't some paragon of strength either.

The whole point of the thread is to over haul Volks, if they are going to be same as grens than so be it (logic makes no sense for relic anyways). The problem with Volks with shreks has been discussed throughout this thread plus 4 more in the coh2.org. Relic does not have to give them lmg, they can give them MP40 for all I care.

The whole point of the thread is to over haul Volks, if they are going to be same as grens than so be it (logic makes no sense for relic anyways). The problem with Volks with shreks has been discussed throughout this thread plus 4 more in the coh2.org. Relic does not have to give them lmg, they can give them MP40 for all I care.

Considering the MP40 is literally the worst submachine gun in the game, it would probably be a lot more fair to give them some StG's (for a price of course). In my suggestion I made them more resemble cons, which thematically and balance wise makes a lot more sense than just making them grens 2.0.

The point is that at vet 0, they lose out to every single mainline allied infantry unit. At vet 5 any OKW unit is great. If you want people to still make use of volks your going to HAVE to give them something that makes people want to make them, otherwise your just going to see Sturmpio spam and more Kubels.

The reason Volk's don't have AI weapon upgrade is because they already have an upgrade in the form of a shrek. Balance is a game of take and give, nerf and buff. Volks suck at AI early game but excel at taking out Vehicles when massed in numbers. The logical conclusion of taking away their purpose is that you have to give them a new one, or else you end up with the SU-76, a unit with no purpose.

At Vet0 they are only slightly worse than Cons. Rifles are different matter as they are the strongest core infantry unit atm. At Vet3 they equall to Cons or maybe slightly better (don't remember exact numbers). At Vet4 they are already better.
Early game you're supposed to utilize Volks with Kubel and Sturmpios. No buff is required.