Paratrooper reinforcement cost

What is actually wrong with you. You're the one that brought up tournament pcts and I told you why people don't like ost against USF. ITS NOT PARAS. Its not the Mg42. It's TECH COSTS. The COSTS SUCK AND THEREFOR you can't have a panther to counter a Jackson, you can't have a brummbsr or Werfer for blobs..

So you're screwed against a tourney quality USF player.

A tourney quality usf player will use smoke nd rape you I'm not denying that... I'm not disputing that


If the USF PLAYER IS JUst blabbing WITHOUT SMOKE YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO BEAT THAT. ANYTHING ELSE IS JUST A L2P ISSUE. Or a MISTAKE..PERIOD. We can do a 1v1. You play USF WITH NO SMOKE. You have to blob at all times and you have to pick Airborne and SPAM paras and LMGS

ILL BE Ost and I'll show you what to do against a blobber that charges into MGS WITH NO SMOKE.

However if you use smoke you'll probably own me. Is that simplified enough for you? Do you understand what I'm saying? Or must I break it down further.

So basically ur saying on equal skill ost loses to usf?Thats what i have been saying..why are u excluding smoke as if using smoke and not using are 2 diff games?If u are not disputing taht,then i don't have a problem because tahts precisely what i'm saying.Get it?
But plz werfer and brumbbar for blobs -can you atleast not be so insulting?Though i admit i use poor werfer in desperation sometimes.

Austerlitz, I assume you play allot of team games 3 v 3+ right? I just dont understand how you have such a tough time using Osth, especially vs USF in TEAM GAMES. I personally find myself using Grens with LMG to scale well against Rifiles, even Paras. I build myself scout car for early punishment against Rifiles, and P4 for mid game. Yea you can argue late game USF can pump Jacksons, but you have Pgs, AT guns Faust. I mean in team games Ost covers OKW player really well and Ost with right commander can keep up with USF. Perhaps if you submit a replay we can figure out why you are having so many issues with Ost vs USF.

But sure, argue math.

So, when I said their cost, timing and performance were arguable, you took me quite literally!

I don't think you can use a doctrinal ability as a certain breakdown of how Relic calculates the value of munitions. An indicator certainly though. Iirc, a long time ago, PQ indicated the calculation for fuel and munitions to manpower. Can't remember where though and if it was in a stream etc. You won't find any argument from me that Obers need an adjustment, as my posts explained.

As an aside, for anyone interested in the basics of how they costed units:

http://pqumsieh.com/2014/01/27/balancing-multiplayer-games-part-1/

Yea, I do tend to take people quite seriously until they prove to be... lets say "unworthy" to not break any rule (*winks* at cannonade, jaigen, quite often aus).
And yes, I know which post you talk about.

If memory serves me right, it was 1 muni=1.5 menpower and 1 fuel was ~2 muni was the PQs calculation. I've used the doctrinal ability, because its a direct relation that we have in game and until someone digs that post up, its the most reliable and believable source we have-the game itself. Anyway its rather easy to estimate weapons price looking at stats and comparing it to paras dual LMGs, doesn't take a scientist to figure hypothetical and accurate cost of LMG34, rest is basic math showing how overly cost effective obers are in relation to, well, any infantry.

I wouldn't put my head at stake here, but I could put jaigens(no big loss if I was wrong then).

So basically ur saying on equal skill ost loses to usf?Thats what i have been saying..why are u excluding smoke as if using smoke and not using are 2 diff games?If u are not disputing taht,then i don't have a problem because tahts precisely what i'm saying.Get it?
But plz werfer and brumbbar for blobs -can you atleast not be so insulting?Though i admit i use poor werfer in desperation sometimes.

Yes thats what im saying,thats what everyone is saying, thats what everyone has been saying


What you're missing is that you're playing against noobs,and youre kinda playing like one.

NO GOOD Us player worth his salt is going to blob right at your supported position with no smoke at all over and over again,especially with expensive units like paras.

Thats what your CLAIMING is happenning to you with these Paras and rifles. Thats why you made this thread.
You didnt mention anything about them using smoke to negate your well placed MGs.(which is a problem.)

Youre just saying your gren blob is losing to para blob.. well no shit....if you put the same resources into your gren blob that hes putting into his paras youll probably win that blob war anyway...

Yah if you put your MG42 in the open... unsupported... the rifles will eat it alive smoke or no smoke...thats how it should be or we're back to the ol Instapin MG42 days.

but if you support the MG,put it in a good position and spot for it...you know...play with SKILL...then your MG42 will Own blobbers EVERY TIME, UNLESS THEY USE SMOKE.
Then its a bit harder,because it becomes more of a gray area whether or not you can counter the blob.
But still beatable,otherwise no one would ever queue as OST,ever.

And yes,smoke and no smoke makes a difference.


Like i said before,bring high skilled players that know what theyre doing into this and yeah ost sucks most out of all factions...but what you're complaining about isnt a "high skill" problem, its a L2p(and a refusal to buy DLC for some reason problem..quit being cheap) issue...

I can't wait until Obers get nerfed, because according to this thread, we can't talk about ANY infantry imbalance unless Obers are nerfed into the dust first. We could give the Americans fucking Power Armour and Laser Gatlings that deal suppression and shred tanks, but they're balanced because Obers exist and we can't speak about ANYTHING until they get fixed

When Obers get fixed, the primary argument of every allied player regarding infantry imbalance dies.

...

MP to fuel i would say it's 1F = 5MP (at least thats how xp value of units is calculated)

and a refusal to buy DLC for some reason problem..quit being cheap

You shouldn't have to buy/get DLC commanders in order to remain competitive. "P2W" issues, more on a RTS type game.

We all know that Ost suffers vs usf in 1v1

You pointed out the problem perfectly. the tech costs are the issue. All non doc OSt units perform well except sniper and mg42

this is a l2p issue from the OP

You imply Gren, Assgren, PG, 222, werfer perform well, you making me laughing my ass off.

Not saying he HAS to buy mech assault,but if he's having this much trouble with USF and its hurting his feeling enough to make a thread on internet about it why not?

Commander costs as much as a combo from mcdonalds.

You imply Gren, Assgren, PG, 222, werfer perform well, you making me laughing my ass off.

They do

You can't spam paras because they are at 3 cp ... + medic Costa 250 mp + if you get bars it cost 150 mp ... Maximum 2 paras ... And they loose vs obers if I'm Remember good. I think it's fine.

They do

Play Ostheer into top 100, and tell me this again.

Gren is the worst basic infantry in game, with only 4 dudes you are forced to retreat at 2 or 1 men, and if you retreat at 1, it is very risky, yet they have very high reinforcing cost. At T1 stage, those guys are totally worthless and bleeding you manpower against horde of rioting Cons. No matter how good you use them in cover, Rifles just come over and kick their ass like Grens are untrained. I did't even mention vet 2 Rifles come out from nowhere at 90 seconds mark.

At T2 they have LMG and begin to shine, their vet make them becomes good, but no matter how good you preserving them, squad cover AI ALWAYS making them being one shot by any AOE.

Ostheer does not just only get fucked by their pathetic tech cost, their ridiculous reinforcing cost and squad AI (lowest squad member) making any Ostheer player getting frustrated.

Prottruppen / Assgren doc is the sole saving grace of Ostheer by now.

Play Ostheer in top 100, and tell me this again.

Gren is the worst basic infantry in game, with only 4 dudes you are forced to retreat at 2 or 1 men, and if you retreat at 1, it is very risky, yet they have very high reinforcing cost. At T1 stage, those guys are totally worthless and bleeding you manpower against horde of rioting Cons. No matter how good you use them in cover, Rifles just come over and kick their ass like Grens are untrained.

At T2 they have LMG and begin to shine, their vet make them becomes good, but no matter how good you preserving them, squad cover AI ALWAYS making them being one shot by any AOE.

Ostheer does not just only get fucked by their pathetic tech cost, their ridiculous reinforcing cost and squad AI (lowest squad member) making any Ostheer player getting frustrated.

Prottruppen / Assgren doc is the sole saving grace of Ostheer by now.

id take lmg grens over rifles and and every day

We all agree that ost tech costs are the problem.

But i honestly dont see any ost unit that doesnt do its job well beside the sniper and mg42

Play Ostheer into top 100, and tell me this again.

Gren is the worst basic infantry in game, with only 4 dudes you are forced to retreat at 2 or 1 men, and if you retreat at 1, it is very risky, yet they have very high reinforcing cost. At T1 stage, those guys are totally worthless and bleeding you manpower against horde of rioting Cons. No matter how good you use them in cover, Rifles just come over and kick their ass like Grens are untrained. I did't even mention vet 2 Rifles come out from nowhere at 90 seconds mark.

At T2 they have LMG and begin to shine, their vet make them becomes good, but no matter how good you preserving them, squad cover AI ALWAYS making them being one shot by any AOE.

Ostheer does not just only get fucked by their pathetic tech cost, their ridiculous reinforcing cost and squad AI (lowest squad member) making any Ostheer player getting frustrated.

Prottruppen / Assgren doc is the sole saving grace of Ostheer by now.

100% true unfortunately. You cannot rely on grens but from 2 vet level and untill then you have to pray they live. Further, even vetted, they are more susceptible to be wiped by AOE weapons than any other faction infantry. As Ostheer you get cornered from start game, you try to resist and if you do untill Tigers, you win. If you don't you lose. Teching cost is a bitch and the reward for teching is to small. Ostheer is the only faction you cannot be upset on for abusing of heavy call ins. What else can they do?

id take lmg grens over rifles and and every day

I would to. Not over BAR rifles I won't, especially if they have the grenade upgrade active.

I would to. Not over BAR rifles I won't, especially if they have the grenade upgrade active.

Nope. id still take the grens.

LMG has great damage

Rifle nade

and faust that is a guaranteed engine crit

Nope. id still take the grens.

LMG has great damage

Rifle nade

and faust that is a guaranteed engine crit

That feeling when playing as Ostheer vs Vet3 2xLMG Paras, feel the true power!

They do

I don't want to get too side tracked here, but seriously the units that Porygon listed are not performing well, and its not just tech. Even if I could build 222 from T1 I wouldn't. It would limit my ability to get tanks and in return I would get a low damage lmg on a car that is hard countered by AT nades or a single zook. I might get a panzerwerfer at T3, but it would not be a guarantee.

Also I agree with Mr. Someguy, this thread has become: Obers are OP nothing else can be done.

We all agree Allies suffer in team games and need buffs to bring them in line with Germans (or OKW needs a more punishing income there). But seriously the reinforce cost for paratroopers is nuts. They get insane DPS with the LMG upgrade, and they have huge survivability. They also come with some nice abilities, and can be reinforced on the field with pathfinders putting down radio points (which do not require a squad to build only click the button and start the set up).

If you want Ost to use Grens think about this, to take on paratroopers you need 2 grens (480 mp), and 2 LMG's (120 munitions). On top of that any loses by the Grens require the grens to have another building or vehicle nearby to reinforce. Meanwhile para's can just break contact and reinforce at a free radio beacon.

MG42 is useless because the gunner gets sniped off and does not return fire. To add insult to injury para's can slow the crew and make sure they kill them without them setting up.

Paratroopers need to be looked at and the cost adjusted. This does not mean that Obers do not need nerfing (and they need the bat hard), or that rifle grenades should not be reexamined (I hate how they function), or that in team games allies don't need help (and they clearly do). All of that is true, but let's focus here and point out that paratroopers reinforcement is not reflective of their power.

That feeling when playing as Ostheer vs Vet3 2xLMG Paras, feel the true power!

That feeling when playing as USF vs Vet5 Obers, feel the true power!

That feeling when playing as USF vs Vet5 Obers, feel the true power!

I addressed this in my post above, but seriously no one is saying: "Para's should get nerfed and Obers should not get nerfs". Make a thread about Obers and I will be happy to talk about ways to nerf them.

By saying Para's cannot be nerfed because another unit they face is OP, you are agreeing Para's are OP as well. That is exactly why they need to be adjusted.