Soviet weapon teams

I would like to see a couple of changes to Soviet weapon teams, but am interested in people's feedback.

Weapon teams should not drop weapon on retreat.
While realistic this makes the teams much worse than Wehr and OKW teams which do not drop the weapon while on retreat. Maxims are extremely vulnerable to the pick up, die, drop, pick up, die, drop cycle. Zis guns can still be dropped, but Obers need to be looked at as they can snipe models off which are trying to move the gun one by one until the gun is completely decrewed.

Weapon team clumping makes rifle gernades too effective for cost.
Rifle gernades are too effective right now against weapon crews. These can easily wipe whole teams with a single shot that can be fired through fog at long ranges. There is no counter play to rifle nades. You always get hit by them you can just spread out your units. Rifles nades should not automatically out class weapon teams. This also makes Soviet mgs scale very poorly.

Response time is still bugged.
Currently weapon teams can still "debate" whether to carry out an order immediately or to continue a command and then complete the order. This is especially true in mortars. After a retreat command is given the unit may continue to fire another shell. This should never happen. As the unit is already vulnerable to dropping the weapon and being sniped by high dps long range German units they need to respond immediately.

Suppressed maxim is still able to control unsuppressed weapon teams.
Maxims, even when suppressed are able to return fire and suppress other weapon teams even if they are walked into another mg's arc. This should not be the case. Maxims that enter another mg's arc and are suppressed should be punished more severely. Otherwise they still serve the same purpose by suppressing the mg and allowing flanking. This may also happen to German mg's I just see them rarely set up under maxim fire. In all cases mg's should not be able to set up under another mg and suppress it.

120mm mortar is too RNG dependent.
This unit can feel like a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde situation. The lucky hit of a single round can cause the game to end early, but sometimes it takes long periods to even get a kill with it. RNG is part of the game but it is too reliant on RNG.

120mm mortar is too RNG dependent.
This unit can feel like a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde situation. The lucky hit of a single round can cause the game to end early, but sometimes it takes long periods to even get a kill with it. RNG is part of the game but it is too reliant on RNG.

Agreed. I would like to see 120mm mortar wiping enemy squads on more regular basis.

Weapon teams should not drop weapon on retreat.

i disagree and this applies for germans aswell O.o


Weapon team clumping makes rifle gernades too effective for cost.

same with molotov and any normal nade


Suppressed maxim is still able to control unsuppressed weapon teams.

good point, suppressed weapon teams should not be able to set up or
reposition


120mm mortar is too RNG dependent.

i think needs a compleet rework (range, abilites, 1 man retreat and
price)

Weapon teams should not drop weapon on retreat.

i disagree and this applies for germans aswell O.o


Weapon team clumping makes rifle gernades too effective for cost.

same with molotov and any normal nade

The problem with drop on retreat is that a single lucky RNG kill on the gunner can nullify retreat. I understand this is less realistic but it does the game good to have them not drop. In any case it should not be different between factions. Retreat should play the same for both factions.

Remember the range on molotovs and other nades is much shorter than rifles nades. Rifles nades allow squads to barely enter or not even enter the cone of fire to wipe a team. This is crucial for maxims that have relatively poor suppression, they require enemies to get close to kill effectively. At max range they cannot be used effectively, so a vet 3 gren makes maxims near useless. Both other grenades require you get closer. This increase the risk quite a bit. However, I do understand that grenades being thrown at long ranger under suppression is stupid right now.

Agreed. I would like to see 120mm mortar wiping enemy squads on more regular basis.

Not asking for it to wipe squads, but it needs to hit more regularly. This should not be wiping squads but it should be more consistent. Lowering RNG does not mean squad wipes automatically go up. That is only true in a vacuum where no other changes are made.

I would also like to see these. Often times I feel completely helpless as my gun crew gets gunned down as it tries to re-crew the guy who fell over. I feel like the extra men of the squad should get hit more often rather than the main guy carrying the maxm who always gets shot first.

1) I think they should drop it on retreat, either retreat fast or suffer.
2) All kinds of grenades should have huge range nerf when the unit is suppressed, specially rifle grenades.
3) No comment, should get fixed.
4) Maxim is the most powerful HMG IMO, not because it's good but because the rest are shitty. Soviets can TROLOLO with their maxims, walk in your MG and suppress it. Suppressed MGs need huge suppression reduction, not only for maxim.
5) There is a good thread about 120mm. It's very effective and essential against OKW FlakTruck rush and blobbing, but that does not make it fine. Sometimes it underperforms and sometimes (specially in smaller maps which you can barrage from your base) it nukes squads. Needs tweaks not nerfs (increase AoE, reduce damage or something like that).

OK i got the first 1 wrong
you mean if the model with the wepon dies on retreat another model fromt he squad has to pick up the weapon unlike ther mg42 that is magicaly teleportet to the next model

i dont get 120 mm sometimes....i mean many more expensive anti infantry units anti blob units don't accomplish as much as 120mm while being very expensive and late..not to mention 120 mm durability.

the whole faction is designed based on RNG.

OK i got the first 1 wrong
you mean if the model with the weapon dies on retreat another model from the squad has to pick up the weapon unlike their mg42 that is magicaly teleportet to the next model

Exactly the problem. It should not be different between factions.

1) I think they should drop it on retreat, either retreat fast or suffer.

Here is the issue though, German units frequently have excellent long range DPS. As such a retreating maxim may lose its gunner which is often the tail man in the squad and the crew keep returning one by one to pick up the gun until they all die. The issue is not getting over run, it is that the way this functions is different between factions giving a significant advantage to the Germans.

Here is the issue though, German units frequently have excellent long range DPS. As such a retreating maxim may lose its gunner which is often the tail man in the squad and the crew keep returning one by one to pick up the gun until they all die. The issue is not getting over run, it is that the way this functions is different between factions giving a significant advantage to the Germans.

Yea I'm totally with you on that, either HMG42 should be like maxim (Drop and pickup) or maxim should be like HMG42 and M2 HMG.