A Soldier's Farewell

Jump back to quoted post25 Jan 2015, 10:39 AMMajorBloodnok

(Fixed thread title)

During the end of March, 1./s.Pz.Jäg.Abt.512 went into action against US tank during rearguard actions, losing four Jagdtigers, three of them to breakdowns. During the combat around Herborn, the Jagdtigers were able to successfully engage US tanks at ranges exceeding three kilometers, reporting more than 30 destroyed vehicles.

2./s.Pz.Jäg.Abt.512 had been ordered to the city of Unna, where they on 8 April destroyed more than 20 US tanks and armored cars trying to capture the city. Retreating from Unna, one Jagdtiger was lost against US tanks.

On 11 April, ten Jagdtigers, three Pz Kpfw IV's, four Sturmgeschütz IV's, and four anti-aircraft vehicles of Kampfgruppe Ernst set up position on a ridge. As a US armored column approached, the unit opened fire, destroying at least 50 vehicles, including 11 Medium Tank, M4's. The US forces withdrew, and engaged with fighter-bombers, two of which were destroyed, while destroying one Jagdtiger, and damaging another.

In his Book "Tigers in the Mud" Otto Carius also recorded that a 128 mm projectile went through all the walls of a house and destroyed an American tank behind it.[7]

Jump back to quoted post25 Jan 2015, 15:43 PMREforever

One of the finest tank commanders in WW2(Not better than Wittmann though) and gave the Americans and Russians one hell of a fight, so he has my respect. I wonder if the modern German Army will attend his funeral or pay respects? In a way, men like Otto Cariius, Wittmann and Kurt Knispel paved the way for modern tank combat, and if there's any tank aces that emerge from future conflicts, they'll have these German tank commanders to thank.

Jump back to quoted post25 Jan 2015, 15:43 PMREforever

One of the finest tank commanders in WW2(Not better than Wittmann though) and gave the Americans and Russians one hell of a fight, so he has my respect. I wonder if the modern German Army will attend his funeral or pay respects? In a way, men like Otto Cariius, Wittmann and Kurt Knispel paved the way for modern tank combat, and if there's any tank aces that emerge from future conflicts, they'll have these German tank commanders to thank.

Jump back to quoted post25 Jan 2015, 16:38 PMMajorBloodnok

I am struggling to understand your post.

List_of_World_War_II_Panzer_aces_from_Germany

Whilst Wiki has to be treated with caution, it seems abundantly clear that Carius (and his gunner(s) ) were more proficient than Wittmann (and his gunner(s) ). And given that Carius operated against heavier Soviet Battle tanks, my confusion deepens.

Can you enlighten me?

Jump back to quoted post25 Jan 2015, 16:42 PMDasDoomTurtle

I have no idea as to what the German army will do (if anything) but ill see if I cant find out. It would be a shame to not honor the death of any soldier no matter what.

BTW: Comparing Wittmann to Carius or Carius to Knispel can not be used in defining "the best". Wittmann never operated a Jagtiger, Carius did, thus how can they be similar (just an example)? He was a tank ace yes but one can not say which was the better. They all where not in competition and only did what needed to be done of them.

Jump back to quoted post25 Jan 2015, 16:54 PMREforever

I should've clarified, I meant that Wittmann was my personal favourite tank commander/ace from WW2. As for why I think Wittmann was better than Carious is because Wittmann was unorthodox with his strategies and seized opportunities that most other tank commanders wouldn't have taken. The Battle of Villers-Bocage is a fine example of Wittmann single handedly defeating the British Army and forcing them to retreat; he successfully engaged British tanks and AT guns in large numbers; the British didn't know what to do and had to retreat from Wittmann and his crew.


Otto on the other hand did everything by the books relatively speaking; he didn't take huge gambles and risks like Wittmann did, and it's why I don't consider him better than Wittmann; Wittmann's actions resulted in either victory or decisive defeat.

I also like him because he was in the Waffen SS, and as far as i'm aware he wasn't charged with war crimes, so it adds to the pile of evidence that most Waffen SS troops were simply fighting for their country, and not out of political ideals.

Jump back to quoted post25 Jan 2015, 17:28 PMMajorBloodnok

But Carius (with his men) rescued an entire encircled German army, with Navy support, whereas Wittmann was facing troops with lesser tanks and simply carried out a surprise attack.

Care needed...

Jump back to quoted post25 Jan 2015, 17:28 PMMajorBloodnok

But Carius (with his men) rescued an entire encircled German army, with Navy support, whereas Wittmann was facing troops with lesser tanks and simply carried out a surprise attack.

Jump back to quoted post25 Jan 2015, 17:45 PM__deleted__

Jesus.
Reforever, do me a favour, treat yourself to this:
http://www.amazon.com/Waffen-Ss-Organization-Ideology-Function/dp/0631140735/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1422207800&sr=8-4&keywords=bernd+wegner
And should you speak German, there is this fine piece of recent scholarship:
http://www.amazon.com/%C2%BBWeltanschaulich-gefestigte-K%C3%A4mpfer%C2%AB-Waffen-SS-1933-1945/dp/3506769073/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1422207758&sr=8-1&keywords=rene+rohrkamp

Should also be available in any decent university library...