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A Soldier's Farewell

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DasDoomTurtle
25 Jan 2015, 00:29 AM
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Today, January 24th 2015 we have lost a soldier. A man that fought for his country in a time where turmoil ran ram pet. Today Otto Carius has gone to sleep never to wake up again. He is now at peace, amongst his brothers, friends and family. Ruhe in Frieden Otto.

**This is not a fanboi nazi bullsh*t post. This is for a soldier. A soldier fights for many reasons yet in the end it seems they are never remembered for their acts but rather the imperfections of societies social and political structures; therefore, I choose to honor a man that fought, a man that fought gallantly, and a man that maybe even was indirectly responsible for allowing my Grandfather to survive while fighting amongst his German brothers in the end when the war was lost.**
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FichtenMoped
25 Jan 2015, 00:33 AM
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R.I.P. Otto Carius :(
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The_rEd_bEar
25 Jan 2015, 00:39 AM
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R.I.P
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steel
25 Jan 2015, 01:47 AM
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R.I.P
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Switzerland
25 Jan 2015, 02:54 AM
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Definitely a man who commanded some respect, and gave his efforts to assist the German armies recovery after the war. Even members of the modern Heer have respect for the efforts of some of thier predecessors, this I would think is such an individual. Rest peacefully indeed.

Switzerland <444>3
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MajorBloodnok
25 Jan 2015, 10:39 AM
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(Fixed thread title)
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steel
25 Jan 2015, 10:42 AM
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jump backJump back to quoted post25 Jan 2015, 10:39 AMMajorBloodnok
(Fixed thread title)
(Added apostrophe)
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Affe
25 Jan 2015, 11:17 AM
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With 150+ enemy tanks destroyed he was the 2nd best tank ace from WW2. Only Kurt Knispel got more kills then carius.

Otto Carius was part of the "502nd Heavy Panzer Battalion" commanded a Tiger tank and fought against the soviets. His Service during the Baltics campaign made him Famous. In the village of Dunaburg, Latvia he destroyed 16 IS-2 tanks with his Tiger. Here is a documentary about the "502nd Heavy Panzer Battalion" in the battle around the Baltics in which Otto Carius took part:




Otto Carius later become part of the "Schwere Heeres-Panzerjäger-Abteilung 512" commanded one of the rare Jagdtigers and fought against the US Army in the Western front. Here are a few Combat reports from Otto Carius and the "Schwere Heeres-Panzerjäger-Abteilung 512":

During the end of March, 1./s.Pz.Jäg.Abt.512 went into action against US tank during rearguard actions, losing four Jagdtigers, three of them to breakdowns. During the combat around Herborn, the Jagdtigers were able to successfully engage US tanks at ranges exceeding three kilometers, reporting more than 30 destroyed vehicles.

2./s.Pz.Jäg.Abt.512 had been ordered to the city of Unna, where they on 8 April destroyed more than 20 US tanks and armored cars trying to capture the city. Retreating from Unna, one Jagdtiger was lost against US tanks.

On 11 April, ten Jagdtigers, three Pz Kpfw IV's, four Sturmgeschütz IV's, and four anti-aircraft vehicles of Kampfgruppe Ernst set up position on a ridge. As a US armored column approached, the unit opened fire, destroying at least 50 vehicles, including 11 Medium Tank, M4's. The US forces withdrew, and engaged with fighter-bombers, two of which were destroyed, while destroying one Jagdtiger, and damaging another.

In his Book "Tigers in the Mud" Otto Carius also recorded that a 128 mm projectile went through all the walls of a house and destroyed an American tank behind it.[7]





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JHeartless
25 Jan 2015, 13:35 PM
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Wow not even one Article I could find on his death. JUST WOW. I love the media. Historical person dies (because was German Soldier in WW2) no news. Brittany Spears changes the color of her Pubes FRONT PAGE!

RIP.
jump backJump back to quoted post5 Mar 2015, 21:57 PMREforever
The PTRS's are fine as they are. Whenever i'm up against Guard Infantry, I always have to be careful with my vehicles or the Guards will completely destroy them. Good range, good damage and fairly cheap; if anything, the PTRS should nerfed since it's ridiculously good for the price. Even in the hands of Conscripts, the PTRS's are extremely potent.
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REforever
25 Jan 2015, 15:43 PM
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One of the finest tank commanders in WW2(Not better than Wittmann though) and gave the Americans and Russians one hell of a fight, so he has my respect. I wonder if the modern German Army will attend his funeral or pay respects? In a way, men like Otto Cariius, Wittmann and Kurt Knispel paved the way for modern tank combat, and if there's any tank aces that emerge from future conflicts, they'll have these German tank commanders to thank.
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MajorBloodnok
25 Jan 2015, 16:38 PM
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jump backJump back to quoted post25 Jan 2015, 15:43 PMREforever
One of the finest tank commanders in WW2(Not better than Wittmann though) and gave the Americans and Russians one hell of a fight, so he has my respect. I wonder if the modern German Army will attend his funeral or pay respects? In a way, men like Otto Cariius, Wittmann and Kurt Knispel paved the way for modern tank combat, and if there's any tank aces that emerge from future conflicts, they'll have these German tank commanders to thank.


I am struggling to understand your post.

List_of_World_War_II_Panzer_aces_from_Germany

Whilst Wiki has to be treated with caution, it seems abundantly clear that Carius (and his gunner(s) ) were more proficient than Wittmann (and his gunner(s) ). And given that Carius operated against heavier Soviet Battle tanks, my confusion deepens.

Can you enlighten me? :)
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DasDoomTurtle
25 Jan 2015, 16:42 PM
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jump backJump back to quoted post25 Jan 2015, 15:43 PMREforever
One of the finest tank commanders in WW2(Not better than Wittmann though) and gave the Americans and Russians one hell of a fight, so he has my respect. I wonder if the modern German Army will attend his funeral or pay respects? In a way, men like Otto Cariius, Wittmann and Kurt Knispel paved the way for modern tank combat, and if there's any tank aces that emerge from future conflicts, they'll have these German tank commanders to thank.


I have no idea as to what the German army will do (if anything) but ill see if I cant find out. It would be a shame to not honor the death of any soldier no matter what.

BTW: Comparing Wittmann to Carius or Carius to Knispel can not be used in defining "the best". Wittmann never operated a Jagtiger, Carius did, thus how can they be similar (just an example)? He was a tank ace yes but one can not say which was the better. They all where not in competition and only did what needed to be done of them.
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REforever
25 Jan 2015, 16:54 PM
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jump backJump back to quoted post25 Jan 2015, 16:38 PMMajorBloodnok


I am struggling to understand your post.

List_of_World_War_II_Panzer_aces_from_Germany

Whilst Wiki has to be treated with caution, it seems abundantly clear that Carius (and his gunner(s) ) were more proficient than Wittmann (and his gunner(s) ). And given that Carius operated against heavier Soviet Battle tanks, my confusion deepens.

Can you enlighten me? :)


I should've clarified, I meant that Wittmann was my personal favourite tank commander/ace from WW2. As for why I think Wittmann was better than Carious is because Wittmann was unorthodox with his strategies and seized opportunities that most other tank commanders wouldn't have taken. The Battle of Villers-Bocage is a fine example of Wittmann single handedly defeating the British Army and forcing them to retreat; he successfully engaged British tanks and AT guns in large numbers; the British didn't know what to do and had to retreat from Wittmann and his crew.


Otto on the other hand did everything by the books relatively speaking; he didn't take huge gambles and risks like Wittmann did, and it's why I don't consider him better than Wittmann; Wittmann's actions resulted in either victory or decisive defeat.

I also like him because he was in the Waffen SS, and as far as i'm aware he wasn't charged with war crimes, so it adds to the pile of evidence that most Waffen SS troops were simply fighting for their country, and not out of political ideals.
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__deleted__
25 Jan 2015, 17:11 PM
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Jesus REforever, this is simply beyond puerile and should have place in a thread like this. For the sake of accuracy, Wittmann did not "single-handedly defeat" the British at Villers-Bocage, he had some not so insignificant help by his own 2. Kompanie - which hardly lessens his performance as a martial feat.
As for the Waffen-SS, while it would be ludicrous to claim their rank and file were necessarily solely motivated by "political ideals", but said "political ideals" nevertheless grosso modo played a major role in its formation, recruitment, and perception of self, especially until the de-facto introduction of conscription into its ranks mid-war.
Be that as it may...RIP to Mr. Carius.
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Winterfeld
25 Jan 2015, 17:24 PM
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jump backJump back to quoted post25 Jan 2015, 16:42 PMDasDoomTurtle


I have no idea as to what the German army will do (if anything) but ill see if I cant find out. It would be a shame to not honor the death of any soldier no matter what.

BTW: Comparing Wittmann to Carius or Carius to Knispel can not be used in defining "the best". Wittmann never operated a Jagtiger, Carius did, thus how can they be similar (just an example)? He was a tank ace yes but one can not say which was the better. They all where not in competition and only did what needed to be done of them.


German officials probably wont attent the funeral. Even though it would be the right thing, the german government does not see it right to honour someone who fought for the Nazis. Especially with the political situationen around Europe right know ( talking about you greece, and Britain too :P ). People allready call us Nazis again, the government wont give them a reason too justify it.


Deputy Vice-President of the Angry Bears Clan!
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MajorBloodnok
25 Jan 2015, 17:28 PM
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jump backJump back to quoted post25 Jan 2015, 16:54 PMREforever


I should've clarified, I meant that Wittmann was my personal favourite tank commander/ace from WW2. As for why I think Wittmann was better than Carious is because Wittmann was unorthodox with his strategies and seized opportunities that most other tank commanders wouldn't have taken. The Battle of Villers-Bocage is a fine example of Wittmann single handedly defeating the British Army and forcing them to retreat; he successfully engaged British tanks and AT guns in large numbers; the British didn't know what to do and had to retreat from Wittmann and his crew.


Otto on the other hand did everything by the books relatively speaking; he didn't take huge gambles and risks like Wittmann did, and it's why I don't consider him better than Wittmann; Wittmann's actions resulted in either victory or decisive defeat.


But Carius (with his men) rescued an entire encircled German army, with Navy support, whereas Wittmann was facing troops with lesser tanks and simply carried out a surprise attack.

I also like him because he was in the Waffen SS, and as far as i'm aware he wasn't charged with war crimes, so it adds to the pile of evidence that most Waffen SS troops were simply fighting for their country, and not out of political ideals.


Care needed...
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REforever
25 Jan 2015, 17:33 PM
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jump backJump back to quoted post25 Jan 2015, 17:28 PMMajorBloodnok


But Carius (with his men) rescued an entire encircled German army, with Navy support, whereas Wittmann was facing troops with lesser tanks and simply carried out a surprise attack.


A feat that is admirable and took considerable skill, but don't forget that he had naval support as well as support from other tank divisions. Wittmann didn't enjoy extensive naval and armoured support like Carius did, so thus Wittmann was forced to carry out tasks with barely any support. Read about the Battle of Villers-Bocage; your British Army got destroyed by Wittmann and ended up retreating because they didn't know what to do against Wittmann's tactics and expertise.



Care needed...


Cherrypick more? Read the rest of the sentence and you might understand my point.
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__deleted__
25 Jan 2015, 17:45 PM
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Jesus.
Reforever, do me a favour, treat yourself to this:
http://www.amazon.com/Waffen-Ss-Organization-Ideology-Function/dp/0631140735/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1422207800&sr=8-4&keywords=bernd+wegner
And should you speak German, there is this fine piece of recent scholarship:
http://www.amazon.com/%C2%BBWeltanschaulich-gefestigte-K%C3%A4mpfer%C2%AB-Waffen-SS-1933-1945/dp/3506769073/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1422207758&sr=8-1&keywords=rene+rohrkamp

Should also be available in any decent university library...
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coh2player
25 Jan 2015, 17:47 PM
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Of interest is how Carius, in his life, was much more active in most in helping create the "Tiger Legend" with his participation in the whole tank hobby realm, his acceptance of fans, and his book. There is some good and bad to this.

Also, in an interview at his pharmacy, he basically admitted that his kill score was exaggerated by the propaganda ministry and was closer 100. If I have time later, I may try to track down the source again. Given the propensity for the Germans (not singular to them, other armed forces also exaggerate) to overclaim by 2:1 or 3:1 in tank kills, his real score was probably around 50 kills.

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Jan 2015, 17:28 PMMajorBloodnok

But Carius (with his men) rescued an entire encircled German army, with Navy support, whereas Wittmann was facing troops with lesser tanks and simply carried out a surprise attack.


You mean General Strachwitz's special operations panzergruppe, in which Carius' unit was apart of. or another incident?
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REforever
25 Jan 2015, 17:58 PM
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jump backJump back to quoted post25 Jan 2015, 17:45 PM__deleted__
Jesus.
Reforever, do me a favour, treat yourself to this:
http://www.amazon.com/Waffen-Ss-Organization-Ideology-Function/dp/0631140735/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1422207800&sr=8-4&keywords=bernd+wegner
And should you speak German, there is this fine piece of recent scholarship:
http://www.amazon.com/%C2%BBWeltanschaulich-gefestigte-K%C3%A4mpfer%C2%AB-Waffen-SS-1933-1945/dp/3506769073/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1422207758&sr=8-1&keywords=rene+rohrkamp

Should also be available in any decent university library...


I've read plenty of material regarding WW2 so you posting links to books I've already read are pointless. What do you disagree with in my posts? That the British Army got utterly destroyed by Wittmann? Evidence by German historians and WW2 German veterans conclude that Wittmann was a major factor in Germany's success in the Battle of Villars-Bocage, and that the British troops weren't skilled enough to form an effective defence against Wittmann's attacks.

If Wittmann had naval support or support from other armoured divisions like Carius did, I honestly think Wittmann could've defeated the entire British Army and pushed them back to their isles.


Getting back to Carius though, hopefully the Germans of today and the German Army recognise that Otto was simply a tank commander who fought for his country, and didn't care for the politics; his tactics and skills during WW2 should remind the German Army of their heritage and the immense power and skill they had.

Germany has fallen from grace if you will; their Prussian ancestors are most likely dissapointed at how Germany ended up. The Prussians were a very militaristic society and always had one of the best armies in the world; the current German Army pales in comparison to their WW2 and Prussian counterparts.












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