Ostheer vs usf matchup

Stop asking to nerf USF when its the Wehrmacht that need buffing.

All agreed!

This is not a problem regarding USF, Whermacht is the issue. We all know that HGM42 is worthless, and grens have their own issues. So they have to buff Whermacht's early game, specially crowd control and suppression.

Stop asking to nerf USF when its the Wehrmacht that need buffing.

Exactly...Rifles should still stomp grens early on at most ranges and should still have their smoke,etc. Its ALL THE USF HAS for the first 5ish mins.

why people expect 1 gren squad to solo 1 rifle squad gets me.

The CORE problem is blobs dont have more received accuracy and suppression , and teching costs for Ost.

the 222 already does a good job against the M20, and if the AA Halftrack gets another nerf it may as well not exist anymore.

USF Lategame for ost is fine. OKW is another story..

Discussion about factions as a whole don't seem that productive to me. "Buff USF yes or no" is a weird question because I think that USF is too strong vs ostheer but I also think a ton of USF stuff desperately needs buffs. The MG, all of captain tier, the bazooka, the list goes on.

Most of ostheer's units on the other hand seem to perform reasonably well (at least compared to the USF mortar halftrack ) but their insane teching costs are just too crippling.

Discussion about factions as a whole don't seem that productive to me. "Buff USF yes or no" is a weird question because I think that USF is too strong vs ostheer but I also think a ton of USF stuff desperately needs buffs. The MG, all of captain tier, the bazooka, the list goes on.

Most of ostheer's units on the other hand seem to perform reasonably well (at least compared to the USF mortar halftrack ) but their insane teching costs are just too crippling.

Hm, I certainly disagree. "Strength" in the context of this videogame can only be understood relative to the other factions and within the wider framework of the meta. As far as OH is concerned, their mainstay units are for the most part lackluster given these parameters, with the exception of the Pak, ie.:
Grens are too fragile, and while their lethality greatly increases with vet and LMGs, they are still pretty much as squishy as in their vanilla state and very susceptible to all AOE based weapons with the present cover mechanic, ie. Sherman HE, Scotts, etc.
MG 42s do not perform their intended role adequately - at all.
The PIV is a case in point for the thoughts outlined above. As an individual unit, it performs just fine relative to the Sherman or the 34/76 as a multi-role medium tank. Within the meta, it is a very questionable purchase given the assorted tech costs, the superiority of its "domestic" alternative (straight to Tiger) and the superiority of Allied call-ins and Jacksons, etc..

Hm, I certainly disagree. "Strength" in the context of this videogame can only be understood relative to the other factions and within the wider framework of the meta. As far as OH is concerned, their mainstay units are for the most part lackluster given these parameters, with the exception of the Pak, ie.:

All ost units (except for grens and 222) do thier jobs well. Its the cost that hurts them

EDIT: and sniper

I lost a lot of sympathy for those who cried that Axis was OP when the tourny stats revealed that Ostheer lost the most while the rest of the factions were pretty uniform in win rate.

Another issue ostheer has been having is pgrens, are not very durable for an expensive 340mp 4 man squad,

But PGrens are overperforming -relic

On a serious note, I don't think the infantry fight is all that broken, the problems are the ridicolous manpower costs which will magically make your numbers inferior despite grens being 240 and rifles 280 and the m20.

The m20 is an issue on it's own, it comes too early OR it's too powerful, if it was nerfed to come out 2-3 minutes late it would be fine I think, otherwise with the current timing it needs to become as weak as the 221/222 against infantry and it's smoke moved to vet 1.

But PGrens are overperforming -relic

On a serious note, I don't think the infantry fight is all that broken, the problems are the ridicolous manpower costs which will magically make your numbers inferior despite grens being 240 and rifles 280 and the m20.

The m20 is an issue on it's own, it comes too early OR it's too powerful, if it was nerfed to come out 2-3 minutes late it would be fine I think, otherwise with the current timing it needs to become as weak as the 221/222 against infantry and it's smoke moved to vet 1.

2-3 mins later,is like an 8 min M20,wut... what about the AA halftrack? when will it come out? 12 mins?


222 is better against Inf than the M20 when its upgraded,and the smoke is needed against Puma from OKW.

Again the problem isnt the USF. the problem is the OST teching costs.

222 is better against Inf than the M20 when its upgraded,and the smoke is needed against Puma from OKW.

Thing is the 222 isn't that great versus infantry since the autocannon has so little splash. You're almost entirely dependent on the coaxial MG and you have to pray that weapon doesn't bug out making the 222 useless against infantry on the move.

If the 222 doesn't get changed drastically, I would at least like to see the autocannon be a bit better versus inf since it's still on an incredibly squishy platform that isn't particularly mobile due to it rather large size and its acceleration also being not that great, despite being a light vehicle. The AAHT accelerates faster than this thing. (2.4 vs 4.0, M20 has 3.5)

Most of the time I just keep the car in 221 form to fight infantry since it's cheaper the the munitions can go into grens.

Fucking useless relic will probably just wait 2 months and not actually fix anything.

222 is better against Inf than the M20 when its upgraded

Are you sure of that (stats) or do you just feel that way?

But PGrens are overperforming -relic

On a serious note, I don't think the infantry fight is all that broken, the problems are the ridicolous manpower costs which will magically make your numbers inferior despite grens being 240 and rifles 280 and the m20.

The m20 is an issue on it's own, it comes too early OR it's too powerful, if it was nerfed to come out 2-3 minutes late it would be fine I think, otherwise with the current timing it needs to become as weak as the 221/222 against infantry and it's smoke moved to vet 1.

Could be worse. They could be "Annoying" and end up like Button....

M20 is a silly thing. Did you know it gets 0 and I mean 0 combat ability from Veterancy? That a Vet 2 OKW Pumas hull mount MG has better close range DPS...

It may come to early or the 222 comes too late. But thats a tough one since the 222 hard counters it. Ostheer need something for sure but I suspect that the realm of MG42 buffing and Tech cost reduction should suffice.

I wouldnt mind really seeing the 222 get some sort of buff and I would really like to see the FlameHT viable again. This would give Ost a much needed powerful light vehicle and against USF with their lack of AT nades without Vet would do quite well and probably force Bazooka purchases.

Basically Grens are suffering against Rifles like Scripts suffer against Grens but in reverse. Grens start out at a disadvantage that scales into an advantage for most of the mid game and only is a disadvantage again late game when Rifles finally get Vet 3 and some combat buffs (or you went Infantry and Spend more Muni for your better LMGs which again at Vet 2 on rifles isnt as deadly as Vet 2 Grens with their 30% more accuracy).

Where Scripts do good early and just get completely rolled over Mid to Late game by Grens. At least Rifles cost more...

222 health from 200 to 240
armor from 9 to 11
2cm gun damage 20 to 25
Fuel cost from 15 to 25-30.

But no relic will just look at some bullshit unit value number and say fuck you its overperforming.

222 health from 200 to 240
armor from 9 to 11
2cm gun damage 20 to 25
Fuel cost from 15 to 25-30.

But no relic will just look at some bullshit unit value number and say fuck you its overperforming.

I really like this

Perhaps giving a higher fuel cost to LT delaying m20. And making the repair engine ability more expensive, it doesn't feel rewarding fausting it if it can just repair engine for 10 muni(?10 muni right).

Maby removing bars in base and thompsons on paratroopers and adding Rangers in major. You'll have a squad for long range (para), short range(Rangers) and mid range(rifles) Would force rifles to be more supportive with smoke and at nades and force you to not building that many at the beginning. It'll mean weaker early game but giving us stronger game overall. Giving it more options.

Might give werh more time to fight US. Though IMO Werh has so much more options early game. Why does everyone playing axis wants to be able to win early game. If you have 2 equal skilled players the early game will be better for allies and late game for axis. Finally ending in a close 0 vp win.

Ostheer has very, very little early game options compared to USF actually, in the sense you can either make units to win the game or just sit in your base and wait 5 minutes to surrender.

Ostheer has very, very little early game options compared to USF actually, in the sense you can either make units to win the game or just sit in your base and wait 5 minutes to surrender.

Can you please eleborate, the U.S. can only make RE, rifles, LT and captain which IMO are almost all the same role except RE. Werh got 4 units in t1, which you can acces to instantly with 4 units wich have a clear thought out role.

Are you sure of that (stats) or do you just feel that way?

I feel that way from experience and im pretty sure a 222 at close range does more damage,especially against rifles since the AT grenade wont fire if the 222 is too close UNLIKE the faust which has no minimum range vs an m20.

and at mid long range the damage difference is negligible, im sure.