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Will wehrmacht be fixed or not?Clear answer.

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austerlitz
15 Jan 2015, 15:44 PM
#1
avatar of austerlitz

Posts: 1705

Wehrmacht players are fed up with false hope being thrown away like scraps to dogs every patch for a long time now.Viability of wehrmacht faction in 1 vs 1 especially has reached rock bottom.
Relic should just give a short and clear statement whether they are going to fix this faction,or they think this faction is balanced and they are only concerned about OKW -that way there will be no point in waiting.And in case this is seen as a rant stats speak for themselves from latest december tourney.Tired and sick of waiting now..patch after patch after patch.Crutch units..same meta and nerf after nerf.

Round 2
Games played -120



Round 3
Games played -66



Round 4
Games played-34



Round 5 and 6 no one picked wehrmacht.:clap:

Full stats.
http://www.coh2.org/topic/28483/tournament-statistics-and-no-pretty-graphs-deal-with-it/page/2
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Gluhoman
15 Jan 2015, 16:11 PM
#2
avatar of Gluhoman

Posts: 380

USF is shitty too, need a buff.
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Katitof
15 Jan 2015, 16:21 PM
#3
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jan 2015, 16:11 PMGluhoman
USF is shitty too, need a buff.


Not really.

OKW is batshit OP.
Ost struggles against USF.
You need to nerf OKW as hard as it takes, then you'll be able to adjust USF vs ost and it will also allow soviets vs OKW to be a balanced matchup instead of "hold to late game and slaughter everything with red star" scenario.
Sov vs ost matchup is pretty much alright and nothing changed here since WFA start except some soviet minor nerfs.

ALL WFA balance problems start and end with OKW.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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some one
15 Jan 2015, 16:21 PM
#4
avatar of some one

Posts: 935

If I were Relic I would said - Jesuin won that torney as Ostheer

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sneakking
15 Jan 2015, 16:31 PM
#5
avatar of sneakking

Posts: 655

Permanently Banned
jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jan 2015, 16:11 PMGluhoman
USF is shitty too, need a buff.


>has factual statistics showing that statement is not true
>says it anyway

#justcoh2.orgthings
A Fallen Scrub
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Winterfeld
15 Jan 2015, 16:33 PM
#6
avatar of Winterfeld

Posts: 249

Can we all just chill for a moment?!
Everybody keeps forgetting how, only few months ago everyone was screaming "Axis so OP, game is totally shit, Relic are Axis Fanboys". Now its the other way around.
Balancing a game with 4 factions, of which 2 have come in to an allready pretty balanced game, takes time, just wait for the next patch, we have just gotten back from holiday.


Deputy Vice-President of the Angry Bears Clan!
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JHeartless
15 Jan 2015, 16:38 PM
#7
avatar of JHeartless

Posts: 1637

I blame the Call in Meta for Soviet and Ostheer personally. Call ins being the way to go and Ost really only having the StugE, Command P4 and the Tiger. Soviets can shut this all down early with the T34/85s and late with the IS2.

Stalling for this against USF is painful too since Shermans/Scotts can easily handle Paks/Fausts/Pgren Shrek Teams.

Overall Teching should be more viable then it currently is. If this was the case I think Ostheer would do alot better. And the I never did understand why T3 and T4 have never been an equal asymmetrical choice for Ostheer.

One has Genralists and can come earlier and one has Specialists that come later. I am sure if they messed with BP and Building costs they could delay it with a slow time to BP4 and make them equal price by say making the T3 building cost more fuel while BP3 costs less fuel. Something like that anyway.


jump backJump back to quoted post5 Mar 2015, 21:57 PMREforever
The PTRS's are fine as they are. Whenever i'm up against Guard Infantry, I always have to be careful with my vehicles or the Guards will completely destroy them. Good range, good damage and fairly cheap; if anything, the PTRS should nerfed since it's ridiculously good for the price. Even in the hands of Conscripts, the PTRS's are extremely potent.
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l4hti
15 Jan 2015, 16:39 PM
#8
avatar of l4hti

Posts: 476

Buff grenadiers long range dps at least. Decrease pioneer cost to 180. Make teching cheaper. Same thing for sovies. slight damage buff for mg42.
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austerlitz
15 Jan 2015, 16:45 PM
#9
avatar of austerlitz

Posts: 1705

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jan 2015, 16:21 PMKatitof


Not really.

OKW is batshit OP.
Ost struggles against USF.
You need to nerf OKW as hard as it takes, then you'll be able to adjust USF vs ost and it will also allow soviets vs OKW to be a balanced matchup instead of "hold to late game and slaughter everything with red star" scenario.
Sov vs ost matchup is pretty much alright and nothing changed here since WFA start except some soviet minor nerfs.

ALL WFA balance problems start and end with OKW.


Wrong.OKW has nothing to do with shit pzgrens,tech costs,popcornsprayer42,fartcannoncar221.
And ost is struggling vs conspam as well,not just usf.Just less stark than vs rifles.
Your laughable attempt at trying to blame OKW for pathetic ostheer is amusing.
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austerlitz
15 Jan 2015, 16:48 PM
#10
avatar of austerlitz

Posts: 1705

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jan 2015, 16:33 PMWinterfeld
Can we all just chill for a moment?!
Everybody keeps forgetting how, only few months ago everyone was screaming "Axis so OP, game is totally shit, Relic are Axis Fanboys". Now its the other way around.
Balancing a game with 4 factions, of which 2 have come in to an allready pretty balanced game, takes time, just wait for the next patch, we have just gotten back from holiday.


I don't think they will change anything much for ost in next patch.Haven't bothered to acknowledge factions existence in the last 6 months or so,except when they need to nerf something.
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JHeartless
15 Jan 2015, 16:48 PM
#11
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Posts: 1637

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jan 2015, 16:39 PMl4hti
Buff grenadiers long range dps at least. Decrease pioneer cost to 180. Make teching cheaper. Same thing for sovies. slight damage buff for mg42.


Sure and make them cost 280MP. They can compete with full health rifles at long range. And surpass them with LMGs and at Vet 2 just clown Rifles at range.

Grens arent the problem. MG42? Sure. But Grens are fantastic for cost once they get rolling. But if they want to make them more expensive then why not?
jump backJump back to quoted post5 Mar 2015, 21:57 PMREforever
The PTRS's are fine as they are. Whenever i'm up against Guard Infantry, I always have to be careful with my vehicles or the Guards will completely destroy them. Good range, good damage and fairly cheap; if anything, the PTRS should nerfed since it's ridiculously good for the price. Even in the hands of Conscripts, the PTRS's are extremely potent.
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austerlitz
15 Jan 2015, 16:50 PM
#12
avatar of austerlitz

Posts: 1705

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jan 2015, 16:48 PMJHeartless


Sure and make them cost 280MP. They can compete with full health rifles at long range. And surpass them with LMGs and at Vet 2 just clown Rifles at range.

Grens arent the problem. MG42? Sure. But Grens are fantastic for cost once they get rolling. But if they want to make them more expensive then why not?


Grens are bad earlygame because they struggle vs both opponent basic infantry when spammed-both riflespam and conspam.Midgame they are very good once they get veterancy and lmgs.Lategame again outmatched once enemy fields elite infantry which they mostly can't counter and even ur vet grens are 4 man squads which are easily wiped.
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JHeartless
15 Jan 2015, 16:57 PM
#13
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Posts: 1637

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jan 2015, 16:50 PMausterlitz


Grens are bad earlygame because they struggle vs both opponent basic infantry when spammed-both riflespam and conspam.Midgame they are very good once they get veterancy and lmgs.Lategame again outmatched once enemy fields elite infantry which they mostly can't counter and even ur vet grens are 4 man squads which are easily wiped.


They struggle early game against Rifles. Against Scripts just spam Grens back. Rifles cost more then Grens. So they should be better. And being better is MARGINAL. You cant have your cake and eat it too.

Rifles need to pay for all their Side Grades and Grens do not. Rifles have a higher Upkeep. Rifles have a higher purchase cost. Rifles have crappier and backwards Vet. Vet 3 being Vet 2 and Vet 2 being Vet 3. Which is why Grens start to crush them mid game. Rifles give more XP and require more XP to vet. It goes on and on.

If they want to make Pgrens ELITE to face off against Paras be my guest. But Grens are damn damn good for 240MP I dont know why anyone would think otherwise.

If you want to adjust their early game then you then too need to adjust their mid game. They cant be stronger for cost in both....

Whats not happening is Grens are running around without Armor support until Tiger. Which imho is the problem. Like scripts to take on Elite Infantry they need armor support.

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Mar 2015, 21:57 PMREforever
The PTRS's are fine as they are. Whenever i'm up against Guard Infantry, I always have to be careful with my vehicles or the Guards will completely destroy them. Good range, good damage and fairly cheap; if anything, the PTRS should nerfed since it's ridiculously good for the price. Even in the hands of Conscripts, the PTRS's are extremely potent.
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AchtAchter
15 Jan 2015, 16:58 PM
#14
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Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3

Tournaments are a good way to show balance, simply because the same players play all the factions.

However to give profound proof, we need a tourney with more gamers and games.

However this statistic seem to indicate that Ostheer is simply in a need of buff and all other factions are balanced between each other.

I think it would be enough just to tweak grens a bit, since the mainline infantry has the highest impact on the game.
If you need to know stats of certain unit: http://stat.coh2.hu

Which faction is OP and which is UP? Check it out here

Tips for beginners and wannabe pro's
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akula
15 Jan 2015, 16:59 PM
#15
avatar of akula

Posts: 589

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jan 2015, 16:57 PMJHeartless
Rifles have crappier and backwards Vet. Vet 3 being Vet 2 and Vet 2 being Vet 3. Which is why Grens start to crush them mid game.


What does this mean? Don't the benefits of vet 2 roll into vet3 which adds even more bonuses on top>??
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JHeartless
15 Jan 2015, 17:03 PM
#16
avatar of JHeartless

Posts: 1637

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jan 2015, 16:59 PMakula


What does this mean? Don't the benefits of vet 2 roll into vet3 which adds even more bonuses on top>??


Grens/Scripts/Guards/Shocks/Penals/Pgrens

Vet 2 Increased Accuracy Nade Range etc

Vet 3 Surviability

Rifles

Vet 2

Surviability

Vet 3

Accuracy Nade Range etc.

Everybody but Rifles get bonuses to propel them from Vet 2 to Vet 3 much faster and become alot deadlier.
jump backJump back to quoted post5 Mar 2015, 21:57 PMREforever
The PTRS's are fine as they are. Whenever i'm up against Guard Infantry, I always have to be careful with my vehicles or the Guards will completely destroy them. Good range, good damage and fairly cheap; if anything, the PTRS should nerfed since it's ridiculously good for the price. Even in the hands of Conscripts, the PTRS's are extremely potent.
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elchino7
15 Jan 2015, 17:07 PM
#17
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Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

But they get weapon cooldown, which is something :sealed:
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.

Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.

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Cruzz
15 Jan 2015, 17:10 PM
#18
avatar of Cruzz

Posts: 1221 | Subs: 41

Take 20MP off pioneer cost. Not worth the premium they cost now.
Make grenadiers buildable from HQ to mirror other factions
Reduce HMG42 setup time by 0.5 seconds
Give sniper 8 more hp.

Done. Ostheer issues are not mid or lategame, their issue is that they can be rushed in the first few minutes and pushed off the map. Unit selection is fine, unit performance is fine after you have several squads, but individually in the very early stages their units are lackluster. A single grenadier squad against a single con or riflesquad does nothing but bleeds the ostheer player unless the allied player picks a very bad engagement, yet that's the only engagement you can take in the first 4 minutes.
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JHeartless
15 Jan 2015, 17:15 PM
#19
avatar of JHeartless

Posts: 1637

Give sniper 8 more hp.

This acutally worked surprisingly well in Kappatch...Simple little change but made a pretty big diff.
jump backJump back to quoted post5 Mar 2015, 21:57 PMREforever
The PTRS's are fine as they are. Whenever i'm up against Guard Infantry, I always have to be careful with my vehicles or the Guards will completely destroy them. Good range, good damage and fairly cheap; if anything, the PTRS should nerfed since it's ridiculously good for the price. Even in the hands of Conscripts, the PTRS's are extremely potent.
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austerlitz
15 Jan 2015, 17:23 PM
#20
avatar of austerlitz

Posts: 1705

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jan 2015, 16:57 PMJHeartless


They struggle early game against Rifles. Against Scripts just spam Grens back. Rifles cost more then Grens. So they should be better. And being better is MARGINAL. You cant have your cake and eat it too.

Rifles need to pay for all their Side Grades and Grens do not. Rifles have a higher Upkeep. Rifles have a higher purchase cost. Rifles have crappier and backwards Vet. Vet 3 being Vet 2 and Vet 2 being Vet 3. Which is why Grens start to crush them mid game. Rifles give more XP and require more XP to vet. It goes on and on.

If they want to make Pgrens ELITE to face off against Paras be my guest. But Grens are damn damn good for 240MP I dont know why anyone would think otherwise.

If you want to adjust their early game then you then too need to adjust their mid game. They cant be stronger for cost in both....

Whats not happening is Grens are running around without Armor support until Tiger. Which imho is the problem. Like scripts to take on Elite Infantry they need armor support.



Midgame won't even matter if usf wins earlygame.Even in midgame USF gets free units while ur hampered by teching and need to fend of light vehicle which makes ur grens useless.They are far easily wiped lategame and paras with less reinforce or usf with 1919 makes grens helpless.They also tend to flee enmasse from shocks unless u have 3.Against cons earlygame u can counter spam with spam for a while until they hit critical mass.Then they will just close distance and u can't stop them,ur mg42 is useless and at close range ur dps is poor.Molotovs and ppshs/mortars will force u to be moving and ur more susceptible to wipe.
Pzgrens are squishy manpower sink.
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