120mm Mortar M1943 - no counter, no weakness

The M1943 is the best Mortar in game. It comes at 2 CP for 400 mp does massive damage, has a huge range and at vet 1 basically wipes squads for munitions.
Its 6 men team makes it extremely durable, in fact it's the most durable on map artillery in game, since it can retreat with even 1 man left.
Counters for it are either a Stuka zu Fuß, which can be out at minute 10, but leaves you extremely vulnerable for tanks if rushed or a Panzerwerfer which is locked in t4 and comes out earliest at minute ~15. Yet those units don't take it reliably out, since then either de crewed or survives with one man left.

What I want to say, this unit has no trade offs. It has high durability, high damage and is hard to counter.

Compared to the Pack Howitzer and the LeIG 18 it's slightly cheaper, but much more durable since you can retreat it.

What do you think if it loses it's ability to retreat, that it basically behaves like a Pack Howitzer/LeIG 18.
This would award attempted flanks and would give the game a bit more immersion since it's weight make it impossible to be operated or moved by one person.
Its deadly potential would remain.

Or do you think the unit is in a good spot, compared with all the other mortars/howitzers in game?

Also called, the wipe machine, the precision shot on this unit is really vuLLchit..

It's a doctrinal unit though, I sometimes find the 120mm missing most of its shots. Honestly, Soviets need a 120mm since the mainline Sov mortar is horrendous.

Welcome to the club.

Sometimes I have 30-50 kills with it and another time only 10 but yea, it's powerful.
From today I'm playing 1v1 as OKW and I face guy who had 2 or maybe 3 of them. It was pain in the ass for me but while taking points I was moving units all the time so it did not hurt so bad but yea, I needed Stuka to counter it.

What do you think if it loses it's ability to retreat, that it basically behaves like a Pack Howitzer/LeIG 18.
This would award attempted flanks and would give the game a bit more immersion since it's weight make it impossible to be operated or moved by one person.
Its deadly potential would remain.

Or do you think the unit is in a good spot, compared with all the other mortars/howitzers in game?

Defending this unit is horrible. Either the stuka takes it or the volksblobbs or the obers. You just cant defend the unit with soviet inf, they dont stand up to the obers. To keep it alive it should have a teleporting ability. So the no counter, no weakness, is bull.

Defending this unit is horrible. Either the stuka takes it or the volksblobbs or the obers. You just cant defend the unit with soviet inf, they dont stand up to the obers. To keep it alive it should have a teleporting ability. So the no counter, no weakness, is bull.

No offense, but if you lose a 100 range unit to 35 range infantry squads it's a micro issue. You can quickly reposition/retreat the unit every time a enemy squads approaches.
And since it's 6 men you need to kill it's not easily wiped on retreat.

Ummm I dunno. Its good yeah. Its real good? Yeah. Is it Obersoldaten Good? No. Does it cost the same as Obers? Yes. It is also doctrinal and the regular Soviet Mortar is C R A P as said above.

I think both the ISG and the Pack Howi should just get Massive buffs. They should honestly be better then the 120 MM in its current state. And maybe remove Precision strike from it and add in the flame of death like the Mortar HT gets.

No offense, but if you lose a 100 range unit to 35 range infantry squads it's a micro issue. You can quickly reposition/retreat the unit every time a enemy squads approaches.
And since it's 6 men you need to kill it's not easily wiped on retreat.

I didnt say anything about losing it. The problem is to keep it on the field when obers (if the stuka is up there isnt even a discussion if this unit has a counter) are around. The obers will shread your inf and then it will have to retreat. A 400 mp unit standing in the base is gg.

I personally think its fine, its a 400mp investment that can or cannot payoff, the one shot ability it has is a issue that all mortars have. It's no more op than obers and stukas which every one think is fine for some reason

Hard countered by mortar half-track, which in return impossible to counter. Welcome to fug Allies club.

I think its balanced actually. Ridiculously expensive for a mortar. (same goes for ISG and pack howie).

How is its high cost not a trade-off? Also, stop the "6 man squads are so much more durable" bullshit already. Axis has higher DPS to compensate for that.

Yes, the 120mm is strong. But it's absolutely not OP considering its price.

120mm us fine. It's much better than a regular mortar, but you pay for that by the price tag of 400mp and 10 supply. It's nearly double the price of a regular mortar, and 2 80mm axis mortars will counter the 120mm easily. Just don't expect to counter it with just 1 80mm mortar. Failing that, use a mortar halftrack, or get in close and lob a rifle nade on it.

Edit: compared to other arty units in the game, I would say it is fine. The fact that it is much better than the OKW equivalent is because the OKW one is terrible for its cost. It is also a bit better than the PAKhowitzer, but only because that thing is bugged and costs twice as much to reinforce.

Other howitzers and artillery could do with just a bit of a buff/price adjustment LefH, ISG and pack howitzer etc.

I guess people don't remember that Precision Strike used to deal WAY more damage. Now is just a normal shot. Anyway, with the new cover system, you've to be careful when hugging cover, making it more deadly in that case.


-While it can retreat with 1 man left, it doesn't teleport the mortar and it takes long time to crew it again. This mean that if you flank it with a high DPS unit theres higher chances of wiping it.
-Double mortars are a good early-midgame solution BUT you need to always mantain them with 4 guys and whenever he hits vet1, being careful with PS. You can try pushing the crew to spread it out.
At this point is a matter of mp atrittion vs RNG wipes.


TL;DR: it's balance for cost at it being no turbo mortar.

I have no idea why the 120 can retreat with 1 man, that's my only major complaint against it. It is out of line with every other weapon team in the game (bar MGs which all can retreat with 1 man).

I fecking hate precision shot, winds me up to no end, combined with the current cover system, squad wipes ahoy.

Ofc all AOE weapons are guilty of that this patch, just that the Soviets have an ability that takes away the RNG of hitting bang on.

I'd love to see the cover system/squad clustering fixed, or failing that, an audio warning giving you a similar reaction time to a rifle nade to dodge/move.

The squad wiping potential on everything is really high atm because of the cover and grouping change. I wouldn't mind seeing most aoe weapon profiles being changed to have a larger area in which they deal some damage but reducing the kill radius to be very small.
Indirect fire would more reliably do damage and still help win fights when combined with infantry but it would reduce the number of "Wtf, where did my squad go?" moments.

its 400mp. the mortor is fine