soviet t3 and t4 cost issues....
13 Jan 2015, 03:59 AM
#81
8 
Posts: 2470
soviet teching isn't actually that bad but it locks them out of so many options.
13 Jan 2015, 04:29 AM
#82
Posts: 2070
soviet teching isn't actually that bad but it locks them out of so many options.
just three, but soviet stock has so few units already
Axis doesn't have the best AT options in the game
13 Jan 2015, 05:15 AM
#83
8 Posts: 2470
it locks them out of half their units, that's what i mean. the tech costs aren't bad and the idea is theoretically fine but they really need a 5th building between 1/2 and 3/4 that has units like the zis so if they go 1/3 they aren't screwed if someone shits out anything bigger than a IV. they also need better composition balance within those buildings. tier 1/2 is kind of hard but swapping the t-70 and su-76 while buffing the later would give 3/4 a lot of interesting and viable options.
13 Jan 2015, 05:31 AM
#84
4 
Posts: 4301 | Subs: 2
Both Soviets and Ostheer are very hampered by their high tech costs. The total cost of getting an t70 is just laughable xd compared to anything potent the OKW can field well within the time needed to get the fuel for an t70 let alone a t34.
Everyone always cries about the Soviets players going for the doctrinal t34-85s. Well it is actually the most cost effective solution when considering teching up or getting 2 'decent' tanks for the price of getting a single t34-76 out.
Soviet and Ostheer teching is broken. OKW and USF dominate the teching.
well, sov and ost tech costs were increased a long time ago because tanks came to quickly. if anything, they should increase teching costs for the USF and OKW. if this indeed is a problem.
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13 Jan 2015, 15:20 PM
#85
Posts: 1484
Honestly, why dont we just buff the T-34 by either increasing damage, buffing the ram (before the nerf T-34 was viable), or decrease its cost. Why not increase the damage output or accuracy for SU-85? I just dont see a point of building non-doc unit at this point. 2-3 T-34s are almost worthless against OKW KT and Shrekblobs.
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13 Jan 2015, 15:48 PM
#86
Posts: 1637
Honestly, why dont we just buff the T-34 by either increasing damage, buffing the ram (before the nerf T-34 was viable), or decrease its cost. Why not increase the damage output or accuracy for SU-85? I just dont see a point of building non-doc unit at this point. 2-3 T-34s are almost worthless against OKW KT and Shrekblobs.
SU85 already has the highest DPS of any non doctrinal TD in game. With Mark Vehicle there is no contest at all. It can kill armor faster then a Jackson by about 3 seconds even without Mark. Its gun is fine. Its mobility is not fine.
Buffing its DPS would make it OP. It can kill a medium in about 13 Seconds with Mark. Could you imagine it killing Mediums in 10 seconds?
Edit: And thats at Vet 0...at Vet....ewwwwwwww
The PTRS's are fine as they are. Whenever i'm up against Guard Infantry, I always have to be careful with my vehicles or the Guards will completely destroy them. Good range, good damage and fairly cheap; if anything, the PTRS should nerfed since it's ridiculously good for the price. Even in the hands of Conscripts, the PTRS's are extremely potent.
13 Jan 2015, 16:37 PM
#87
Posts: 1130
Honestly, why dont we just buff the T-34 by either increasing damage, buffing the ram (before the nerf T-34 was viable), or decrease its cost. Why not increase the damage output or accuracy for SU-85? I just dont see a point of building non-doc unit at this point. 2-3 T-34s are almost worthless against OKW KT and Shrekblobs.
why the fuck do you build t-34's to counter a kt? also the su85's problem is its rotation speed but dps is definitely not its problem especially when vetted.
horrida flamma bella
13 Jan 2015, 16:58 PM
#88
Posts: 209
why the fuck do you build t-34's to counter a kt? also the su85's problem is its rotation speed but dps is definitely not its problem especially when vetted.
You trully are not reformable. So every game as Soviet you need to go T4 yes? T3 dead.
13 Jan 2015, 17:13 PM
#89
Posts: 9
Honestly it feels like its more of a prblem with the call in structure with relation to teching. In coh1 the call ins were manpower based.
IF we imagine for example that the guards motor tactics had MP based call ins. Say the 2 t-85s were 1200 manpower.
This would mean your strategy would develop in a very similar way to the old games where to get an MP advantage like that you need to spend fuel on teching to get tanks, to get and MP advantage. At the moment those two tanks are more cost effective than teching past tier 2 so why would you ever do it?
Obviously this is a bit out of context of overall balance with how that interacts with different factions but I think thats the way it needs to be solved, its not so much an issue of tech cost but of how redundant teching is in relation to commander call ins that make most tech options inefficient.
IF we imagine for example that the guards motor tactics had MP based call ins. Say the 2 t-85s were 1200 manpower.
This would mean your strategy would develop in a very similar way to the old games where to get an MP advantage like that you need to spend fuel on teching to get tanks, to get and MP advantage. At the moment those two tanks are more cost effective than teching past tier 2 so why would you ever do it?
Obviously this is a bit out of context of overall balance with how that interacts with different factions but I think thats the way it needs to be solved, its not so much an issue of tech cost but of how redundant teching is in relation to commander call ins that make most tech options inefficient.
13 Jan 2015, 17:34 PM
#90
Posts: 747
You trully are not reformable. So every game as Soviet you need to go T4 yes? T3 dead.
Where have you been for the last months?
Protip:
13 Jan 2015, 17:44 PM
#91
Posts: 2070
people are suggesting call-ins, but then the call-ins are complained about
Axis doesn't have the best AT options in the game
13 Jan 2015, 17:45 PM
#92
Posts: 209
Where have you been for the last months?
Protip:
I am not used to play, a game according to the meta, and i use commanders called not viable like conscript support. Furthermore i am reading this forum to often to not know who whines the most.
13 Jan 2015, 17:47 PM
#93
Posts: 209
people are suggesting call-ins, but then the call-ins are complained about
+1
13 Jan 2015, 18:07 PM
#94
Posts: 1130
Where have you been for the last months?
Protip:
what he said. and getting tier 4 is not a bad idea when dealing with heavy armour but tier 3 is basically inaccessible
horrida flamma bella
13 Jan 2015, 18:43 PM
#95
Posts: 1484
why the fuck do you build t-34's to counter a kt? also the su85's problem is its rotation speed but dps is definitely not its problem especially when vetted.
I dont think I should even reply to you as you are the troll that doesnt even play the game. If I am playing Soviets, I have to either pick T3 or T4. I cannot do both. L2P.
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13 Jan 2015, 18:58 PM
#96
Posts: 2070
u cant really counter a kt with su85s either, you need incredible luck
Axis doesn't have the best AT options in the game
13 Jan 2015, 22:43 PM
#97
Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2
Permanently Banned
why the fuck do you build t-34's to counter a kt? also the su85's problem is its rotation speed but dps is definitely not its problem especially when vetted.
Okw Get a non-doc super heavy. That soviet stock units could barley have any hope of competeing with, when in the hands of an OKW player
Sov stock units = Near worthless
OKW stock units = Pay for themselves
this is hilarious
There is no recording in all WW2 history of a piat actually knocking off a vehicle. Yes, it was THAT bad.
14 Jan 2015, 00:05 AM
#98
Posts: 1130
Okw Get a non-doc super heavy. That soviet stock units could barley have any hope of competeing with, when in the hands of an OKW player
Sov stock units = Near worthless
OKW stock units = Pay for themselves
this is hilarious
Of course how could i forget. i believe the KT even has the i win button installed to prevent unnecessary continuation of the game. oh wait it isnt and 2 su85 will turn it into scrap. you are over exaggerating everything . while im not going to deny that it needs a rotation buff so thats it more useful in CC maps when it used correctly and on the right map it is one of the most potent TD's in the game
u cant really counter a kt with su85s either, you need incredible luck
Stop lying im sick of that shit
horrida flamma bella
14 Jan 2015, 00:10 AM
#99
Posts: 1130
I dont think I should even reply to you as you are the troll that doesnt even play the game. If I am playing Soviets, I have to either pick T3 or T4. I cannot do both. L2P.
Oh FFS. im on your side stupid, because i agree that the soviets have an issue with tier 3/4 so i posted this.
the soviet stock units are fine however. what's not fine is accessibility. as i said before if a soviet player builds either tier 3 or 4 the other tier should get a 70 fuel discount. this way you can have both ai and at tanks on the field.
also you misread my post : i believe the soviets dont need tier 3 at the moment as they have excellent medium/heavy generalist and good AI call-ins and but no TD's whatsoever. so getting tier 4 is significantly more important then getting tier 3. the thing is in 1vs1 okw vs soviets is that going tier 3 is similar to going tier 1 vs the flaktrack. sure it works for a while but then the panther appears and you are in dire situation.
you have to prepare for that panther.
horrida flamma bella
14 Jan 2015, 03:41 AM
#100
Posts: 2070
Um... SU85 need lots of RNG luck to penetrate KT. KT is a bouncing machine if you are facing anything less than an IS2.
Axis doesn't have the best AT options in the game
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