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russian armor

A suggestion to Luftwaffe Supply Drop

28 Dec 2014, 16:55 PM
#41
avatar of DasDoomTurtle

Posts: 438



For a test to be useful, you have to run it at least thousands of time. Doing so ingame is not worthy.

-.-.-.-.-.-
What the turtle wants to say is that it's really hard to pay off the teching cost of OH, even when you are in advantage during the match, in comparison to field them as OKW.

The panther is not bad, rather than being able to field them on the first place.


OKW and OH panthers ARE DIFFERENT.

Some examples:

OKW Panther has speed 13.2 in Blitz
Ostheer Panther has speed 8.9 in Blitz

"Better MGs, higher base accuracy with infinitely better moving accuracy, higher veterancy bonuses with more veterancy levels, stronger blitzkrieg, much less tech costs."


^^This, I am not comparing Panther A to KV1 and Panther B to KV1.....I am comparing Panther A to Panther B. Like voorts analogies your looking at it wrong. The comparison is between the two axis factions not axis faction against allies and then other axis faction against allies.
28 Dec 2014, 17:13 PM
#42
avatar of Doomgunner

Posts: 74



^^This, I am not comparing Panther A to KV1 and Panther B to KV1.....I am comparing Panther A to Panther B. Like voorts analogies your looking at it wrong. The comparison is between the two axis factions not axis faction against allies and then other axis faction against allies.


What you are overlooking is that without Fuel Drop, the Axis team late game armor line-up is:
OST Tiger + OKW Panther
With Supply Drop
OST Panther + OKW KT(arrives faster than OST Tiger).

Pretty sure most Axis team would gladly take that trade off, especially since Luftwaffe shuts down Allies B-4/on map arty play as well(Pak 43 is an option with allied arty offline, plus with the same doc you can Recon Run + Zeroing Arty to wipe any late game pushes).
28 Dec 2014, 17:41 PM
#43
avatar of NinjaWJ

Posts: 2070

This doesn't mean the Panther is bad, it is just bad compared to OKW Panther but this doesn't make the unit itself shit
28 Dec 2014, 21:05 PM
#44
avatar of van Voort
Honorary Member Badge

Posts: 3552 | Subs: 2

The ostheer panther is crap when paired and matched up to the OKW panther. That was my point. Why should Ostheer waste upon the panther if he can feed OKW to gain a more potent panther upon the field. In any case, to take the argument to one point in my analysis of Luft shows that many do not wish to have balance but rather their version of justice. I think that to an extent luft is balanced and only needs to be reworked in the fact of its significant bonuses toward players of the OKW faction.


Your point might be that the OKH Panther is pudding compared to the OKW Panther

This it not however what you actually said:

I think Luft Supply is just fine in the aspect that it nullifies heavy armor for the ostheer player. They are stuck with having a panther as their biggest tank. We all know that is a piece of crap. Now if the Luft player supplies an OKW player then there is a bit of an issue. While the Ostheer player lacks units and struggles to maintain a presence on the field, all the others players have to do is hold the map until they can spam tanks and another ostheer player spams CAS.
-And this all comes from an axis player that does this constantly with fellow bears in 2v2 - 4v4 games.


Having the Panther as your biggest tank still puts OKH in a comfortable position

Yes they can transfer fuel via drop to OKW who can get their Panthers, which I will not dispute are better, out earlier, this will still leave OKH with fuel and pop cap of their own.

What are you proposing that they do with that if not build their own Panthers?

P-IVs?
Stugs?




28 Dec 2014, 21:06 PM
#45
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

How this went from discussion about supply drops to comparing panthers again?
28 Dec 2014, 21:10 PM
#46
avatar of van Voort
Honorary Member Badge

Posts: 3552 | Subs: 2



Voort your missing my point, Ostheer and OKW play upon the same team in a team game....zooks and shreks is a bad analogically because of that key detail. Im saying that though the stats are the same the OKW panther out preforms a Ostheer panther. That is why then the ostheer player feeds okw fuel. TO achieve victory through means of one of the best tank in the game feeding fuel to OKW is very much the better choice than to save it and purchase their own panthers because of the sig difference.


Well sorry, the analogy stands.

The OKH player cannot buy OKW panthers, he can only supply fuel for them so they arrive faster

He still has fuel and pop cap of his own that he gets to spend on something at some point.
28 Dec 2014, 21:17 PM
#47
avatar of van Voort
Honorary Member Badge

Posts: 3552 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Dec 2014, 21:06 PMKatitof
How this went from discussion about supply drops to comparing panthers again?


Because of this:

I think Luft Supply is just fine in the aspect that it nullifies heavy armor for the ostheer player. They are stuck with having a panther as their biggest tank. We all know that is a piece of crap.


Doom may have a point, but he has:

- Overstated his case in relation the OKH Panther
It's not a "piece of crap", the SU-76 is a "piece of crap"

- Failed to provide any explanation of what else is supposed to do with the own fuel and pop cap after spamming supply drops so OKW is full of Panthers
28 Dec 2014, 21:50 PM
#48
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

Maybe make it only drop fuel if on a Fuel Point (is it like this already?) and take a few seconds to retrieve, where the unit gets the standard build/repair/salvage debuff. I wouldn't want to diminish it's direct value though, because then there will be no benefit over a fuel cache.
28 Dec 2014, 21:57 PM
#49
avatar of van Voort
Honorary Member Badge

Posts: 3552 | Subs: 2

You can only drop fuel on fuel points and munitions on munitions points.

However not all fuel points are contestable, and even on maps that are a team that is doing this will fight very hard to secure the fuel point they need even if it means giving up most if not all of the rest of the map.
28 Dec 2014, 23:38 PM
#50
avatar of malecite

Posts: 139

This and the German Elite commander are the only ones I use in 4 v 4. Nothing beats it. If you have an OKW buddy, and the right map, the 10min kingtiger will rape them time and time again.

It's stupidly good, but Ost is in a really weird place right now so I kind of enjoy having a useful couple commanders.
28 Dec 2014, 23:44 PM
#51
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1

The manpower drain and lack of field presence is very noticeable for me when using Luftwaffe supply. The most powerful thing about the commander has to be the extreme amount of munitions you can get, which allows you to constantly have recon planes up and using Dive Bombs against enemy artillery and troop concentrations.
29 Dec 2014, 09:50 AM
#52
avatar of somenbjorn

Posts: 923

I see a real danger of buffing any allied things to compensate for the luftwaffe in teamgames. Doing so would only mean breaking the allies to compensate for a single broken commander.

And it is broken. Don't fight against nerfing it since it would then become less used. If it is broken it is broken.
Lessen the muni you get from it, currently 30 per cache so that is about 150 muni for 200 mp, make it similar to lend lease, ie planes fly over the enemies lines. Which gives you the chance to counter it with AA and M3.
Maybe AA mode will be used then?

As off now it is a no-risk high-reward ability. granting 3-4 mins of muni for 50 seconds of MP or 1,5 - 2 mins of fuel for the same.
29 Dec 2014, 16:34 PM
#53
avatar of maskedmonkey2

Posts: 262

I must be looking at the wrong stats (please correct me if I am)

But from everything I can find, the OKW and Ost panthers are identical in all but 3 stats.

Scatter > Distance:
OST 10
OKW 8

Reload Duration
Ost 5.8 - 6.7
OKW 6.1 - 6.4

And Wind down (can someone explain to me what that is?)
OST 0
OKW 1

The Ostheer panther is still a great tank, and I find it ridiculous to claim that it isnt.
30 Dec 2014, 01:06 AM
#54
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

OKW Panther also has 65% moving accuracy while Ostheer Panther has 50%.
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