OKW Combined arms

I think Sturmpioneer range being at 3 is way too low, it should go back to where it was at 8. That would make them work well at their jobs without having to basically hump the legs of any infantry they engage.

For reference, Almost all SMG users now have a range of 10! So this would still put them below them in terms of optimal damage and range, despite the fact that they use Assault Rifles.

I mean hot damn there were people saying Shocks were great except for the fact they had to hump legs to do damage! Relic has basically inflicted the past treatment of Shocktroopers onto Sturmpioneers.

Yeah but you have Kubel (fast mobile MG) to pin infantry for you. And if you go Kubel extra Sturmpios, they will tear new ass to all infantry at start 90% of time.
Any infantry that doesn't retreat is as good as dead. Those same Sturmpios quickly fix Kubel while you are capping the point and off it goes to harass infantry on approach.
This gives you time to set up ambushes.

Later that same Kubel is excellent spotter for your Luch as it almost never gets hit by ATG while moving, giving you chance to flank that ATG, after it revealed its position and where its facing. And Stormpios again fix any damage while being a threat to any infantry that tries to flank or close in.

This combo is very powerful in my opinion, as far as I can see from games I played.

The only window I find OKW to be vulnerable is window before there is enough fuel for 1st Panther.
I cannot see any other deficiencies in OKW vs allies.

P.S. after playing few games I also realized why a lot off people lose with OKW. They don't get that panther but instead go for Heavier armor that costs more fuel. Extending that window by quite a bit

Thats my view on OKW anyways, you are free to disagree

for the love of the RNG gods

STOP bringing up OKW resourse shortages!

it doesn't matter when okw have the cheapest t4 in the game and can convert both muni and FUEL

their prices are fit to their shortage.

if u don't believe me?

then plz explain with mg upgrades on tanks are cheaper then any other faction.

Explain why obers get their lmg for free?

explain why luchs is 50 fuel yet outperforms all other light tanks?

Last time I checked American T4 (since you seem to like that faction) costed only 10 fuel more, which means it is still a lot cheaper than OKW one if you take the income penalty into account. Converting ressources still won't give you the same amount of resources and it goes at the cost of the one you are converting.

No, their prices are not all fit to OKW shortage.

1. MG upgrades are the same cost as Ostheer ones
2. Obersoldaten don't get their lmg "for free", what do you think their 400 manpower cost comes from? They also don't get reinforcement discounts like American paratroopers. Probably Obersoldaten are still too cheap for what they can do, but that is the sad consequence of the overall faction design of OKW and the equally terrifying power that we currently see of the American infantry blobs.
3. So if Luchs is "outperforming all other light tanks", how come those will destroy the Luchs in a direct duel? Oh yeah, they are actually better against other light tanks and vehicles. If I remember right it is also the Greyhound and not the Luchs that currently drives around instagibbing squads without a chance to avoid. I will give you that the Luchs has more health and is otherwise very powerful against infantry.

Now that we have listened to your arguments, what do you have to say about the following examples? Are they fit to the resource shortage?

-Panzerschrecks (90 for 1 instead of 120 for 2 like Ostheer)
-Grenades
-Panther
-AA Halftrack (compared to US one)
-Commander abilities
-Mines
-P4 and Ostwind call in

Could name more examples but they would be probably more debateable than those examples listed so I will just leave it at that.

Last time I checked American T4 (since you seem to like that faction) costed only 10 fuel more, which means it is still a lot cheaper than OKW one if you take the income penalty into account. Converting ressources still won't give you the same amount of resources and it goes at the cost of the one you are converting.

No, their prices are not all fit to OKW shortage.

1. MG upgrades are the same cost as Ostheer ones
2. Obersoldaten don't get their lmg "for free", what do you think their 400 manpower cost comes from? They also don't get reinforcement discounts like American paratroopers. Probably Obersoldaten are still too cheap for what they can do, but that is the sad consequence of the overall faction design of OKW and the equally terrifying power that we currently see of the American infantry blobs.
3. So if Luchs is "outperforming all other light tanks", how come those will destroy the Luchs in a direct duel? Oh yeah, they are actually better against other light tanks and vehicles. If I remember right it is also the Greyhound and not the Luchs that currently drives around instagibbing squads without a chance to avoid. I will give you that the Luchs has more health and is otherwise very powerful against infantry.

Now that we have listened to your arguments, what do you have to say about the following examples? Are they fit to the resource shortage?

-Panzerschrecks (90 for 1 instead of 120 for 2 like Ostheer)
-Grenades
-Panther
-AA Halftrack (compared to US one)
-Commander abilities
-Mines
-P4 and Ostwind call in

Could name more examples but they would be probably more debateable than those examples listed so I will just leave it at that.

1. What about tiers 2/3 for 40 fuel while captian costs 80?

2. Well, paras cost 390 (or 380?) and still need to pay for upgrade. Reinforcement cost is lower since they are not indestructible with vet like Obers. And 400 MP is not big deal for OKW since OKW almost always has to much MP under the jacket.

3. It's not about Luchs vs T70/Stuart.
It's about utility. Luchs can wreck allies inf. 30kills in 10mins is something normal. On the other hand Stuart should counter infantry while in fact Volks are hard counter against Stuart (great design). Same thing about T70. You need to be ver careful, micro all the time, reverse, repair. Luchs can be thrown behind the lines and give a garden about infantry.

1. It comes with blizzard resistance and it's normal that it costs more since it's avaible a way before schreck on PzGrens.
2. What about grenades?
3. OKW Panther comes earlier than OST Panther. Usually it's about 17min mark.
4. Flaktruck is more deadly than US one and has smoke screen.
5. What about abilities?
6. What about mines?
7. Ostwind is a great unit and Pz4 should be in tier 1 while King Tiger should be in Elite Armor commander.

1. MG upgrades are the same cost as Ostheer ones
2. Obersoldaten don't get their lmg "for free", what do you think their 400 manpower cost comes from? They also don't get reinforcement discounts like American paratroopers. Probably Obersoldaten are still too cheap for what they can do, but that is the sad consequence of the overall faction design of OKW and the equally terrifying power that we currently see of the American infantry blobs.
3. So if Luchs is "outperforming all other light tanks", how come those will destroy the Luchs in a direct duel? Oh yeah, they are actually better against other light tanks and vehicles. If I remember right it is also the Greyhound and not the Luchs that currently drives around instagibbing squads without a chance to avoid. I will give you that the Luchs has more health and is otherwise very powerful against infantry.

1. ur wrong

2. okw don't have a mp shortage, in fact they have a surpluss when I play them. due to how cheep volks are.

3. luches is best light tank hands down. most HP, and it wreckes infantry

You are also wrong about okw t4. okw get free fuel for first tech. t4 comes up faster than any other faction. about 6-9 minutes.

As I said earlier. okw prices fit their shortage

Could name more examples but they would be probably more debateable than those examples listed so I will just leave it at that.

imo the problem are the shreks which make the volx almost invincible vs inf AND armor, because just one shrek doesnt cut their AI capabilities too much. But at the same time you cant really fight them effectively with t34 or other medium armor

i suggest the following:

delete the shreks for the volx, give stormpios a 2x shrek upgrade for like 110muni just like Ostheer.

this way you have different units with different purposes and a more various unit composition, as you can decide whether to let stormpios be Anti Inf or AT. just like OH panzergrens
--> more tactical decisions and micro effort
--> less monoblobbing of doom

1. ur wrong

Open the game and see they cost 50 munition both on Ostheer and OKW.

2. okw don't have a mp shortage, in fact they have a surpluss when I play them. due to how cheep volks are.

Where in my post did I say that OKW have a manpower shortage? And how are Volksgrenadiers "cheap" relative to other infantry? There is a significant performance gap between them and Riflemen, and they certainly don't overperform over Grenadiers or Conscripts in their vanilla state.

3. luches is best light tank hands down. most HP, and it wreckes infantry

Yeah you repeat yourself. Also some additional point that I forgot before, also look at the manpower cost again, the Luchs is the most expensive in that category. Whereas the T70 for example just costs 200 manpower, the Luchs costs 315. Even Ostwind costs only 280 manpower.

You are also wrong about okw t4. okw get free fuel for first tech. t4 comes up faster than any other faction. about 6-9 minutes.

I get 25 fuel more than US at the start, doesn't really make up for lack of 33% of my income and no fuel caches the full game. That I can rush for T4 (you could do the same with US if you really wanted, if it makes sense is another matter) is completely irrelevant for the argument that there is an economy difference that you deny.

As I said earlier. okw prices fit their shortage

Could name more examples but they would be probably more debateable than those examples listed so I will just leave it at that.

I think you should leave it at that for future posts in general, people like you are the reason why this forum is such a mess when it comes to balance discussions.

1. What about tiers 2/3 for 40 fuel while captian costs 80?

2. Well, paras cost 390 (or 380?) and still need to pay for upgrade. Reinforcement cost is lower since they are not indestructible with vet like Obers. And 400 MP is not big deal for OKW since OKW almost always has to much MP under the jacket.

3. It's not about Luchs vs T70/Stuart.
It's about utility. Luchs can wreck allies inf. 30kills in 10mins is something normal. On the other hand Stuart should counter infantry while in fact Volks are hard counter against Stuart (great design). Same thing about T70. You need to be ver careful, micro all the time, reverse, repair. Luchs can be thrown behind the lines and give a garden about infantry.

1. It comes with blizzard resistance and it's normal that it costs more since it's avaible a way before schreck on PzGrens.
2. What about grenades?
3. OKW Panther comes earlier than OST Panther. Usually it's about 17min mark.
4. Flaktruck is more deadly than US one and has smoke screen.
5. What about abilities?
6. What about mines?
7. Ostwind is a great unit and Pz4 should be in tier 1 while King Tiger should be in Elite Armor commander.

1. Yeah, this argument is more valid than the ones from the other user before. Especially in case of the Captain I think he is a bit too expensive right now, if you compare him to T2 of Ostheer for example as well. However, does it make up for the 66% fuel income and lack of fuel caches over the whole game? Does it make up for current dominant call in meta where some factions won't even need to tech up completely?

2. They also spawn in middle of map, which according to discussions on this forum is worth an additional price as well. Obersoldaten are just as vulnerable as any other infantry when dealing with AoE damage. How would they be justifying their cost if they were the same as now but without the LMG? No one would really like to buy them for their vanilla state. How OKW has "always too much MP" I don't see.

3. You say it is about utility but then go on only about the combat power against infantry. Also, how Luchs can just ignore everything when there could be anywhere mines orAT grenades breaking engine and Bazookas (which no one buys currently because they are bad against other tanks, I know) and PTRS are actually able to penetrate it I don't know. They are deadly if the enemy is not prepared for them, that is correct, but so is a T70 if I don't have any AT. The current overall meta is more a reason why one unit may be more attractive than the other than the actual tank capabilities if you ask me. Against Ostheer those units probably can do better right now as well.


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1. Blizzard resistance is not more than a nice gimmick even on winter maps, but on summer maps it is not even that, so why would one think that this should be part of the price? If this is considered even worth buying, it should be a seperate upgrade for winter maps. And why is it so relevant that they come earlier, you buy them over the whole game time and actually you can get a Panzergrenadier squad with Panzerschrecks around as quick if you put your priority on that. OKW just happens to usually put their first munition in a Panzerschreck anyway because of lack of alternatives.
2. They cost the same as other factions' grenades, so they are not adjusted to OKW economy as the other user implied.
3. Yeah in comparison to Ostheer where many people here think that the teching system makes T4 come too late or expensive. In the time I get my Panther, how many tanks can my enemies already have? How does it help me in the long term when I need more than just that one first tank? The lack of fuel will mean I will have less tanks in the end.
4. Smoke is a veterancy ability, US halftrack can still partially shoot on the move, has longer range and is more deadly against enemy vehicles and the main gun doesn't need as long to set up. Also less vulnerable to small arms and more reliable regarding terrain. In general, no infantry wants to stay in the range of a firing AA halftrack, no matter if it is the German or the American, but the advantages of the American one make me usually rather want to have that one. Even if you consider it a fair trade off of strengths and weaknesses, the OKW one costs around the same even with OKW fuel disadvantage, so it is another example in regards to the other user who said that "all OKW units are fit in price" to the economic disadvantage.
5. Well, I don't see how those commander abilities have a reduced munition price to make up for the economic disadvantage as implied by other user. You might possibly argue that maybe for Flares, but other abilities like for example all the artillery abilities are surely not artifically cheap to make up for income difference in any way.
6. Cost the same as Soviet mines besides lower income as implied again.
7. If you ask me Ostwind is currently overpriced in comparison to other AI vehicles, but even if you consider it balanced it still costs the same as Ostheer one besides reduced income again. P4 is also not really cheaper (it is a bit harder to compare as it comes in a dual pack, has different stats and comes with random experience, but you will find it hard to see here an advantage for OKW again).

For OKW the issue arises that the Panther is honestly extremely mediocre and the player is better off just getting more volks with shreks so any allied mediums that entire the field get insta killed by a giant horde of high vet volks.

Really I find the Sturmtiger to be much better option especially if I'm facing off against a entrenched allied player that's spamming at guns and other support weapons. The Stuka Zu Fus is just so awful versus a skilled player who knows how to avoid it, while most won't be able to react to your sturmtiger in time if you sight for it.

If you want mid game dedicated AT you are far better off spending your fuel on a Jadgpanzer which becomes a beast at vet 2 then wasting it on a Panther, or just continue to stall for a command panther or KT. The reason you see very little OKW combined arms is they simply don't need it.

It is almost impossible to have a combined arms tactic early - early mid game. Volks are the most verstile and reliable infantry in the game that act both as AI and AT. OKW player does not need anything else but to wait for Puma or heavy tank. OKW has a terrible design and I think its killing Coh2 player base.

Doesn't help that Stuka zu Fuss was Ninja-Nerfed without any corresponding patch notes to have a much broader/longer firing strip with the projectiles falling in a more spread out and random pattern than the predictable and more condensed pattern that it originally came out with.. Which makes it weaker and less reliable.

It is almost impossible to have a combined arms tactic early - early mid game. Volks are the most verstile and reliable infantry in the game that act both as AI and AT. OKW player does not need anything else but to wait for Puma or heavy tank. OKW has a terrible design and I think its killing Coh2 player base.

Word for word literally everything you just said can be applied to American Rifles. In fact let me try that.


"It is almost impossible to have a combined arms tactic earl - early mid game. Rifles are the most versatile and reliable infantry in the game that act both as AI and AT. USF player does not need anything else but to wait for Sherman or Easy-Eight. USF has a terrible design and I think it's killing Coh2 player base."




Hm, that seems pretty congruent.

Word for word literally everything you just said can be applied to American Rifles. In fact let me try that.


"It is almost impossible to have a combined arms tactic earl - early mid game. Rifles are the most versatile and reliable infantry in the game that act both as AI and AT. USF player does not need anything else but to wait for Sherman or Easy-Eight. USF has a terrible design and I think it's killing Coh2 player base."




Hm, that seems pretty congruent.

Well, I can call in Dodge truck for my early game harassment. I can call in Assault engineers and pathfinders. I can use my Paratroopers, captain and Stuart combo. I can aim for lieutenant and get out a scout cars and mg all the while OKW has build are Volks and upgraded with shreks (mid game).

People are bashing the okw again because they are shitty players. the OKW is the very epitome of combined arms. you dont have any generalist tank what so ever safe for the p4 call in and the KT. all other units are specialised units. even the volks sure they are though (at vet 5 not before that) but have no AI what so ver midgame. second their are no cheap fuel vehicles within the okw combine this with less fuel income means you see less vehicles within the okw faction.

Sure you can complain about volks shrecks but first give me a pak 40.

People are bashing the okw again because they are shitty players. the OKW is the very epitome of combined arms. you dont have any generalist tank what so ever safe for the p4 call in and the KT. all other units are specialised units. even the volks sure they are though (at vet 5 not before that) but have no AI what so ver midgame. second their are no cheap fuel vehicles within the okw combine this with less fuel income means you see less vehicles within the okw faction.

Sure you can complain about volks shrecks but first give me a pak 40.

]


You haven't seen how people play OKW at the top level if you say that...

Well, I can call in Dodge truck for my early game harassment. I can call in Assault engineers and pathfinders. I can use my Paratroopers, captain and Stuart combo. I can aim for lieutenant and get out a scout cars and mg all the while OKW has build are Volks and upgraded with shreks (mid game).

I could build a Kubelwagen (lulz) I can build more Sturmpioneers(Doublelulz) I could build a Raketenwerfer(Max lulz) or.. maybe an MG-34 with fast CP-1. (Moar lulz) Or fast tech a quick medic HQ and get an LE-IG...(Epic lulz)

There are options though!

OKW has a terrible design and I think its killing Coh2 player base.

This. i swear if i face another volk+ober blob im soo done.

For the life of me i don't understand why relic designed a faction soo poorly.

Once u get OKW'd on crossing. u never forget. such a disgusting faction to face at a high level

This. i swear if i face another volk+ober blob im soo done.

For the life of me i don't understand why relic designed a faction soo poorly.

Once u get OKW'd on crossing. u never forget. such a disgusting faction to face at a high level

Most of these OKW "Defenders" think the faction is perfectly fine and they have penalties or whatever. God forbid if they have to micro their heavy tanks and OberShrekBlob without giving "attack move" order.

Most of these OKW "Defenders" think the faction is perfectly fine and they have penalties or whatever. God forbid if they have to micro their heavy tanks and OberShrekBlob without giving "attack move" order.

Its honestly gotten to the point to where i don't wanna launch coh2.

Fight an okw play who knows what he is doing its some of the most frustrating things ive ever had to experience in a game.

When I play as okw, I get the same complaints from my opponets.

"why are u blobbing shreks and obers"

cus its the faction design sadly

Its honestly gotten to the point to where i don't wanna launch coh2.

Fight an okw play who knows what he is doing its some of the most frustrating things ive ever had to experience in a game.

When I play as okw, I get the same complaints from my opponets.

"why are u blobbing shreks and obers"

cus its the faction design sadly

LOL I remember calling you out on blobing on one match I played. Yea, I have been cutting my COH2 game time to bare minimum (unless I have full team), rather play Battlefield 4 till Jan's patch! Dont disappoint me Relic (They probably will)!

I quite often use ISG, Kubel, MG34 + infantry. I'd say that's combined arms?

1. Yeah, this argument is more valid than the ones from the other user before. Especially in case of the Captain I think he is a bit too expensive right now, if you compare him to T2 of Ostheer for example as well. However, does it make up for the 66% fuel income and lack of fuel caches over the whole game? Does it make up for current dominant call in meta where some factions won't even need to tech up completely?

2. They also spawn in middle of map, which according to discussions on this forum is worth an additional price as well. Obersoldaten are just as vulnerable as any other infantry when dealing with AoE damage. How would they be justifying their cost if they were the same as now but without the LMG? No one would really like to buy them for their vanilla state. How OKW has "always too much MP" I don't see.

3. You say it is about utility but then go on only about the combat power against infantry. Also, how Luchs can just ignore everything when there could be anywhere mines orAT grenades breaking engine and Bazookas (which no one buys currently because they are bad against other tanks, I know) and PTRS are actually able to penetrate it I don't know. They are deadly if the enemy is not prepared for them, that is correct, but so is a T70 if I don't have any AT. The current overall meta is more a reason why one unit may be more attractive than the other than the actual tank capabilities if you ask me. Against Ostheer those units probably can do better right now as well.


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1. Blizzard resistance is not more than a nice gimmick even on winter maps, but on summer maps it is not even that, so why would one think that this should be part of the price? If this is considered even worth buying, it should be a seperate upgrade for winter maps. And why is it so relevant that they come earlier, you buy them over the whole game time and actually you can get a Panzergrenadier squad with Panzerschrecks around as quick if you put your priority on that. OKW just happens to usually put their first munition in a Panzerschreck anyway because of lack of alternatives.
2. They cost the same as other factions' grenades, so they are not adjusted to OKW economy as the other user implied.
3. Yeah in comparison to Ostheer where many people here think that the teching system makes T4 come too late or expensive. In the time I get my Panther, how many tanks can my enemies already have? How does it help me in the long term when I need more than just that one first tank? The lack of fuel will mean I will have less tanks in the end.
4. Smoke is a veterancy ability, US halftrack can still partially shoot on the move, has longer range and is more deadly against enemy vehicles and the main gun doesn't need as long to set up. Also less vulnerable to small arms and more reliable regarding terrain. In general, no infantry wants to stay in the range of a firing AA halftrack, no matter if it is the German or the American, but the advantages of the American one make me usually rather want to have that one. Even if you consider it a fair trade off of strengths and weaknesses, the OKW one costs around the same even with OKW fuel disadvantage, so it is another example in regards to the other user who said that "all OKW units are fit in price" to the economic disadvantage.
5. Well, I don't see how those commander abilities have a reduced munition price to make up for the economic disadvantage as implied by other user. You might possibly argue that maybe for Flares, but other abilities like for example all the artillery abilities are surely not artifically cheap to make up for income difference in any way.
6. Cost the same as Soviet mines besides lower income as implied again.
7. If you ask me Ostwind is currently overpriced in comparison to other AI vehicles, but even if you consider it balanced it still costs the same as Ostheer one besides reduced income again. P4 is also not really cheaper (it is a bit harder to compare as it comes in a dual pack, has different stats and comes with random experience, but you will find it hard to see here an advantage for OKW again).

2. Paras spawn in the middle of the map but it's hard not to lose 1-2 models when spawning in the FoW. Falchs spam without such risk and already with great weapons.
It's not about 400 and muni to upgrade. Let's lower cost to 300, reinforcement to 35 and LMG for 100.
I usually go for T3, T4 and fast Luchs. When T4 is ready I have around 600-800 MP
3. If you go around behind enemy's lines where wont be any mines. Also AT nades are very risky to use since Luchs can wipe squad before nade. Bazzokas or even AT guns are not a threat becasue Luchs jas 400 hp.

_________________
1. Schreck for Volks comes earlier than for PzGrens and rushing for PzGrens just to prove it is stupid becaise in game you won't rush for PzGren to give them Schrecks.
Keep in mind that it's most powerful AT weapon on the weakest inf.

2. Mines and Grenades should cost the same amount of muni. Why? Because if they would cost 66% of the Soviets/Ost what would be the point of reduced income?

3. Volks can easily defend you against Shermans and T34/76 for 3-5mins before Panthers.

4. I think it's just a subjective which one is better. One would take PzIV and someone else Sherman. I would take Flaktruck instead of AA halftruck. It suits me better.

5. Same like mines and grenades. If abilities would have reduced muni, there would be no purpose in reduced income.

6. I'm using Ostwind really agressive when it hits the field but in late-game I keep it behind lines, sometimes use it to kill inf but most of the time it's shooting down planes.

People are bashing the okw again because they are shitty players. the OKW is the very epitome of combined arms. you dont have any generalist tank what so ever safe for the p4 call in and the KT. all other units are specialised units. even the volks sure they are though (at vet 5 not before that) but have no AI what so ver midgame. second their are no cheap fuel vehicles within the okw combine this with less fuel income means you see less vehicles within the okw faction.

Sure you can complain about volks shrecks but first give me a pak 40.

We all here are still waiting for your pro-elite replay.

This. i swear if i face another volk+ober blob im soo done.

For the life of me i don't understand why relic designed a faction soo poorly.

Once u get OKW'd on crossing. u never forget. such a disgusting faction to face at a high level

I think most of us here would desing OKW better in 15mins