Wehrmacht Ostheer

How do you stop them from closing,ur gren DPS is not enough to wipe out squads attempting to close and u don't have a close range grenade.On top of that there are maps.Reason that i only use g43 doctrines these days,even then results are avg at best.You can't tiptoe around the problem of huge MP disparity in teching no matter how much u try.Ostheer is the weakest faction allround,not many will dispute this fact.

That really is the purpose of mgs.

We are in agreement that ost is the weakest faction, but it isn't because grens are wholly incapable of fighting rifles. If properly micro'd they can and will win.

The first problem is that rifles will generally not take anywhere near enough damage to have to retreat, as they charge entrenched grens. This is compounded by the fact that the Heer MG is just plain ineffective against rifles. With equal micro, two rifles will beat a gren and an MG almost every time, because the MG won't suppress the rifles before they manage to flank. Again, most of the time it isn't about the Heer player "letting" the rifles get close.

The second problem is that rifles are extremely competitive with Grens at range; Grens have a slight advantage, but nothing remotely like the rifles' advantage close up.

If your mg gets flanked, you didn't mg correctly. It seems that the only points you have are that if you get out-played you lose. That is the way it is supposed to be, and wouldn't be much of a game without it.

And I am not sure how much clearer I could make it, grens win v rifleman at range. Do what you have to do to keep them away. This is literally no different to keeping a jackson at range to a kt, it is the exact same concept.

Using units to their strengths is the ENTIRE point of the game.

The latest Tournament Statistics demonstrates that the Wehrmacht Ostheer was not a favorite to play.

http://www.coh2.org/topic/28483/tournament-statistics-and-no-pretty-graphs-deal-with-it

The ost need some major buffs. the first issue is the teching cost. tier 1/2 building and bp 2 need to be reduced in half when it comes to mp to match the okw soviet cost .

a better 222. it needs more armor firepower and hp. of course it also needs a fuel increase to 35-40 . it depends on the stat buff

and last the underperforming tier 3. p4 needs a penetration buff from 120 to 160 and the stug needs to be a dedicated td again.

The ost need some major buffs. the first issue is the teching cost. tier 1/2 building and bp 2 need to be reduced in half when it comes to mp to match the okw soviet cost .

a better 222. it needs more armor firepower and hp. of course it also needs a fuel increase to 35-40 . it depends on the stat buff

and last the underperforming tier 3. p4 needs a penetration buff from 120 to 160 and the stug needs to be a dedicated td again.

Christmas dreams.
Maybe santa claus will listen,coz relic won't bother.

That really is the purpose of mgs.

We are in agreement that ost is the weakest faction, but it isn't because grens are wholly incapable of fighting rifles. If properly micro'd they can and will win.


If your mg gets flanked, you didn't mg correctly. It seems that the only points you have are that if you get out-played you lose. That is the way it is supposed to be, and wouldn't be much of a game without it.

And I am not sure how much clearer I could make it, grens win v rifleman at range. Do what you have to do to keep them away. This is literally no different to keeping a jackson at range to a kt, it is the exact same concept.

Using units to their strengths is the ENTIRE point of the game.

Three wrong statements here.
One the wehrmacht mg 42 doesn't do the job ur setting to it.Bad mobility,unreliable suppression speed,no damage and rifle smoke and ability to grenade while supprssed or kill gunner by dps alone.If u expect usf player to charge his whole rifle blob frontally at ur mg -u are assuming he is a noob.Even if u suppress 1-2 squads frontally others will flank,gren DPS and number inferiority will not be enough to stop them doing so and mg 42 suppression is so weak in dmg that rifle squad can lay under mg fire for quite same time without losing 1-2 members,even grenade mg.

Wrong flanking can happen simply because he will outnumber ur squads.How does he do this?MP tech disparity and free lieutenant,while ur desperately trying to get a pak and hoping ur 'wonderweapon' mg42 comes good.

Finally comparing jackson and KT to gren-rifle.Most silliest statement of all.Jackson has more range than KT.Jackson is WAAY more faster than KT.Neither of which is the case with grens vis-a -vis rifles,and thus they can't use the advantages possesed by jacksons against kt to keep rifles at arms length .The comparison is a joke.

If your mg gets flanked, you didn't mg correctly. It seems that the only points you have are that if you get out-played you lose. That is the way it is supposed to be, and wouldn't be much of a game without it.

Half the time the MG-42 Doesn't have to be flanked that's the problem. Rifles smoke it
And Scripts oorah and moly it or shocks smoke and close on it. But assuming these things don't happen, It comes down to why would I want to cut a gren squad for something that is unreliable?

The 42 is just not good enough to want to cut a gren for one, barring specific maps. Even
then a MG bunker is most of the time a better choice.

And I am not sure how much clearer I could make it, grens win v rifleman at range. Do what you have to do to keep them away. This is literally no different to keeping a jackson at range to a kt, it is the exact same concept.

Using units to their strengths is the ENTIRE point of the game.

Maybe so, but he will have more rifles then you do grens most of the time.
And grens will only win with LMG's.

Another problem is the traverse speed, it's so slow. I had an MG 42 suppress 2 charging Riflesquads, but they got too close so I packed up and moved back, and redeployed. After setting up again, one of the squads became unsuppressed and resumed his run at it, but the MG 42 had already targeted the other squad. I told it to target the charging squad, but it was too slow, dispite getting a burst off at them at the end, they left the arc of fire unsuppressed and forced it to retreat.

Maybe so, but he will have more rifles then you do grens most of the time.
And grens will only win with LMG's.

And the problem with Gren LMGs is that it makes them static and blobs are so mobile that the range advantage of the LMG is good for only a few seconds and then the BARs start overwhelming it. Plus explosives are too strong now and 4 men static Gren squads get wiped frequently.

And the problem with Gren LMGs is that it makes them static and blobs are so mobile that the range advantage of the LMG is good for only a few seconds and then the BARs start overwhelming it. Plus explosives are too strong now and 4 men static Gren squads get wiped frequently.

Highley situational. Grens are a tough baselane infantry with lmg's that can stand up to most threats including bar rifles when micro'd and positioned correctley.

Better than using that gimp HMG-42 or "Yolo 1 shot sniper"

the sniper is fine against USF, who doesn't have any fast units to close with him. he still dies easily but he's generally worth his cost.

just don't ever open with him against anyone, you're just asking for M3/WC51s.

The latest Tournament Statistics demonstrates that the Wehrmacht Ostheer was not a favorite to play.

http://www.coh2.org/topic/28483/tournament-statistics-and-no-pretty-graphs-deal-with-it

And it was stated that one reason was on how the tournament work. You choose Axis faction first, so counterplaying with USF was an issue. Also mapchoice and location.

And it was stated that one reason was on how the tournament work. You choose Axis faction first, so counterplaying with USF was an issue. Also mapchoice and location.

Doesn't the fact that one faction can counterplay another faction kind of prove there's a major balance problem between them?

And it was stated that one reason was on how the tournament work. You choose Axis faction first, so counterplaying with USF was an issue. Also mapchoice and location.

then they have issues period and if i look on the stats correctly the soviets are also dominating the ost. surprising since cheesy tacts like sniper spam, maxim spam and the power of the early game m3 causes this. issues that the okw doesnt suffer.

then they have issues period and if i look on the stats correctly the soviets are also dominating the ost. surprising since cheesy tacts like sniper spam, maxim spam and the power of the early game m3 causes this. issues that the okw doesnt suffer.

A lot of these problems could be solved if 222 was not such a piece of useless trash that's a waste of fuel mp and mu.

Wehrmacht suffers from some poor units early game being mainly:
MG-42
Sniper
222

This kind of pigeonholes Wehr to go gren spam every game, Maybe a mortar or a mg here and there but certainly not the centerpiece of Wehrs early game. Wehr stands on pretty much grens pzgrens and paks alone until tanks come.

yeah, the 222 is a piece of shit. it doesn't do much damage and it has numerous hard and soft counters. the only redeeming factor is that it's dirt cheap but the teching costs are enough you can't really capitalize on that.

A lot of these problems could be solved if 222 was not such a piece of useless trash that's a waste of fuel mp and mu.

Wehrmacht suffers from some poor units early game being mainly:
MG-42
Sniper
222

This kind of pigeonholes Wehr to go gren spam every game, Maybe a mortar or a mg here and there but certainly not the centerpiece of Wehrs early game. Wehr stands on pretty much grens pzgrens and paks alone until tanks come.

I agree while some units ostheer are a bit underperforming especially the ost sniper who is in my opinion far to fragile as well as the somewhat lackluster tier 3. the fact is that the ost have some of the worst light vehicles in the game . damage output between the m20 and 222 is about the same but the durability is way better ,especially with the skirts. utility is also greater: mines smoke and free zooka. i suppose we hould increase the fuel cost and buff the the durability would go a long way to adress a lot of early game ostheer issues

yeah, the 222 is a piece of shit. it doesn't do much damage and it has numerous hard and soft counters. the only redeeming factor is that it's dirt cheap but the teching costs are enough you can't really capitalize on that.

cheap in fuel perhaps but not in mp.

i must be honest, i haven't used them in forever, are they not 80mp anymore?

i must be honest, i haven't used them in forever, are they not 80mp anymore?

Try 210 mp. An old update adjusting manpower of Ostheer and Soviet light vehicles.

so yeah, they're not really cheap either anymore.