Wehrmacht Ostheer
23 Dec 2014, 19:46 PM
#41
Posts: 1702
This thread is turning out to be quite interesting
23 Dec 2014, 20:19 PM
#42
Posts: 1439
Wrong on both accounts. Volks benefit the least from veterancy. they start with shitty kars and end with slightly less shitty kars. Fusiliers start with some of the best kars in the game and end with g43 and the highest long rang dps output of any rifle/ carbines (with only lmg;s can surpass them) in the game and remember death enemies do zero damage thats better then just being a punching bag like vet 5 volks.
And yes i agree that volks vet easily but only vet 5 is of relevance and you cannot proclaim that a vet 5 volks is a certainty. thats BS
Are you kidding me?
Volksgrenadier:
-10% received accuracy
+30% accuracy -20% weapon cooldown
-10% received accuracy Healing when out of combat
+40% sight range +30% accuracy
-29% received accuracy
almost 50% less dmg intake, 40% sight range, 60% accuracy, 20% weapon cooldown + heal out of combat.
They will never be as effective as Obers (and I have never claimed that), or other more specialized OKW infantry, but bonuses they're getting from Vet are insane. Now look at the price and reinforcement cost. Please compare that to Rifles, Grens or Cons.
23 Dec 2014, 20:30 PM
#43
Posts: 2053
Problems :
All MGs have some problem suppressing any unit in yellow cover, suppression needs to be fixed.
MG42 doesn't do enough damage.
Soviet and American vehicles come to early, Whermacht does not get an AT gun or Panzershreck fast enough. BAAAAAD. The early game would be so much more fun if it was infantry only and no god damn vehicles. Remember that Scout car used to be a problem and then everyone complains about kubels? Relic just still doesn't get it.
Since m3 wasnt a giant design fail, Relic designed a faction which can make more, and better light vehicles not much later which wrecks Ost. Kappa
(Well, Dodge comes earlier than m3 so GG)
Since the power of the lmg42 wasnt questioned enough, Relic designed a faction where any infantry can have BAR's or M1919's. MVGame
Also, another faction which can make manpower costing lmg's that are twice as good as the lmg under it. Why did the Germans make the lmg42 if the lmg34 is über alles? Silly Ostheer were fooled into thinking newer weapons were better.
Who again decided to expand the game by expanding broken concepts in the new factions? Good job.
All those years of experience with vCoH? Did it simply vanish along with THQ?
23 Dec 2014, 21:11 PM
#44
Posts: 1705
I play nearly only wehrmacht,and this in my view are the problems -
Main problem - Teching structure MP costs
USF does 2 things.It puts MP pressure directly by ceaseless rifle attacks ,on top of this u need to tech asap to fight off light vehicle which takes up moore mp.
If u must then invest in a 320 mp pak,thats even more crunch.Or 340 mp pzgren with 120 muni(no lmgs for grens)
On top of this he will get free unit for teching.
How do you compete with that?Just crushed by numbers.
Trademark unit mg4 2-value very limited.No dmg -enemy will kill u while suppressed by grenade or lmg..then whats the point?
Too easily avoided by smoke.
Unreliable suppression speed.
Bad mobility and risk of being taken.When its all of the above-why bother?
Snipers - Outcapped and terribly vulnerable once light vehicle hits field.
Faction has no mobility and just tries to stay alive desperately,defeating wehr is a walk for usf if player knows how to shift move rifles from diff angles.
I repeat main problem is teching cost and result difference in MP terms.
Main problem - Teching structure MP costs
USF does 2 things.It puts MP pressure directly by ceaseless rifle attacks ,on top of this u need to tech asap to fight off light vehicle which takes up moore mp.
If u must then invest in a 320 mp pak,thats even more crunch.Or 340 mp pzgren with 120 muni(no lmgs for grens)
On top of this he will get free unit for teching.
How do you compete with that?Just crushed by numbers.
Trademark unit mg4 2-value very limited.No dmg -enemy will kill u while suppressed by grenade or lmg..then whats the point?
Too easily avoided by smoke.
Unreliable suppression speed.
Bad mobility and risk of being taken.When its all of the above-why bother?
Snipers - Outcapped and terribly vulnerable once light vehicle hits field.
Faction has no mobility and just tries to stay alive desperately,defeating wehr is a walk for usf if player knows how to shift move rifles from diff angles.
I repeat main problem is teching cost and result difference in MP terms.
23 Dec 2014, 21:26 PM
#45
Posts: 1439
I'd recommend you to see how it is on the other side. Play USF, try it for yourself.
23 Dec 2014, 21:28 PM
#46
Posts: 1130
Are you kidding me?
Volksgrenadier:
-10% received accuracy
+30% accuracy -20% weapon cooldown
-10% received accuracy Healing when out of combat
+40% sight range +30% accuracy
-29% received accuracy
almost 50% less dmg intake, 40% sight range, 60% accuracy, 20% weapon cooldown + heal out of combat.
They will never be as effective as Obers (and I have never claimed that), or other more specialized OKW infantry, but bonuses they're getting from Vet are insane. Now look at the price and reinforcement cost. Please compare that to Rifles, Grens or Cons.
I know the stats mate i also that 60 % extra on low dps is still low dps. they are meatshields but meatshields do not win you the game.
horrida flamma bella
23 Dec 2014, 22:20 PM
#49
4 
Posts: 117
I'd recommend you to see how it is on the other side. Play USF, try it for yourself.
Are you kidding? I had to stop playing Ostheer 1v1s because they're simply not competitive against USF. And yes I tend to stomp Ost as USF.
23 Dec 2014, 22:27 PM
#50
Posts: 262
The trick with gren v rifleman engagements is to take them at range.
At a range of 24 to 34 vanilla grens outdamage rifleman squads.
Also, just to mention that lmg42 outdamages m1919 at all ranges. Though they are very close.
And finally, to those claiming the mg42 doesn't do enough damage, try incendiary rounds.
At a range of 24 to 34 vanilla grens outdamage rifleman squads.
Also, just to mention that lmg42 outdamages m1919 at all ranges. Though they are very close.
And finally, to those claiming the mg42 doesn't do enough damage, try incendiary rounds.
23 Dec 2014, 23:47 PM
#51
Posts: 4928
The trick with gren v rifleman engagements is to take them at range.
At a range of 24 to 34 vanilla grens outdamage rifleman squads.
It's a good thing Riflemen can't walk, or Grens would be in trouble.
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
24 Dec 2014, 00:04 AM
#52
14 
Posts: 10665 | Subs: 9
This thread is turning out to be quite interesting
Please do not stoke the fires, eh!
There have been some hostile, close combat exchanges here, previously undiscovered by the Mods...
let us now continue forwards as (semi) friends, eh?
back to topic...
24 Dec 2014, 00:12 AM
#53
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
I know the stats mate i also that 60 % extra on low dps is still low dps. they are meatshields but meatshields do not win you the game.
Vet3 Gren: 29.14/14.62/11.02
Vet4 Volks (no shrecks): 27.68/14.15/10.31
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
24 Dec 2014, 00:39 AM
#54
Posts: 1130
Vet3 Gren: 29.14/14.62/11.02
Vet4 Volks (no shrecks): 27.68/14.15/10.31
Yeah why dont you calculate the dps of a gren squad with a lmg and a volks squad with shrek. the dps is simply not impressive.
horrida flamma bella
24 Dec 2014, 00:43 AM
#55
Posts: 1130
The trick with gren v rifleman engagements is to take them at range.
At a range of 24 to 34 vanilla grens outdamage rifleman squads.
Also, just to mention that lmg42 outdamages m1919 at all ranges. Though they are very close.
And finally, to those claiming the mg42 doesn't do enough damage, try incendiary rounds.
outdps but not out hp the grens. also i looked on the stats American lmg's does more damage then the lmg42 upgrade
horrida flamma bella
24 Dec 2014, 01:01 AM
#56
Posts: 4928
M1919's really need to be limited to one-per-squad though.
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
24 Dec 2014, 01:37 AM
#57
Posts: 262
It's a good thing Riflemen can't walk, or Grens would be in trouble.
I didn't realize that micro was a task reserved for allies only.
outdps but not out hp the grens. also i looked on the stats American lmg's does more damage then the lmg42 upgrade
I must be looking at the wrong stats. M1919 vs mg42
24 Dec 2014, 01:51 AM
#58
Posts: 1130
I didn't realize that micro was a task reserved for allies only.
I must be looking at the wrong stats. M1919 vs mg42
well one is outdated then or wrong
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApmrrrPr20ncdGF4VURuYjVGZXlIN3ptbV8tbzRzN0E&usp=drive_web#gid=0
horrida flamma bella
24 Dec 2014, 02:05 AM
#59
15 Posts: 1708 | Subs: 2
spreadsheet is out of date, tensai updates coh2 stats after every patch. Wooof doesnt always update all the values in the google spreadsheet.
24 Dec 2014, 02:38 AM
#60
1 
Posts: 144
With ost vs usf it is sometimeslike:
You need cover,a gren squad and a mg to deal with a squad of us soldiers.
Then another one arrives from different angle or it outcaps you.
You try to deal with them, but another arrives from a different angle or outcaps you.
You try to deal with them, but another arrives from a different angle or outcaps you.
If you still have grenadiers or something else left you also try to deal with them, but the leutnant arrives and laughs at you, knowing that a m20,m8,flak ht will come and crush you.
Exaggerated, but plenty of games went exactly that way.
You need cover,a gren squad and a mg to deal with a squad of us soldiers.
Then another one arrives from different angle or it outcaps you.
You try to deal with them, but another arrives from a different angle or outcaps you.
You try to deal with them, but another arrives from a different angle or outcaps you.
If you still have grenadiers or something else left you also try to deal with them, but the leutnant arrives and laughs at you, knowing that a m20,m8,flak ht will come and crush you.
Exaggerated, but plenty of games went exactly that way.
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