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IS anyone sick of "weapons lethality"?

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Zupadupadude
21 Dec 2014, 10:59 AM
#21
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jump backJump back to quoted post21 Dec 2014, 03:24 AMHS King


Hmm yeah that happens too. I think its just an overly simplistic mechanism that translates into too much rng, and too little consistency across the whole game.

This is what happens when Relic reduces the very complex but excellent mechanics of COH into the basic and impossible to balance mechanics of COH2.


Just when I thought you weren't going to compare it to vCoH rofl

How is vCoH's small arms system any more complex than CoH2's? Well, besides the target table shit, but that wouldn't even matter here.

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HS King
21 Dec 2014, 11:38 AM
#22
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jump backJump back to quoted post21 Dec 2014, 10:59 AMZupadupadude


Just when I thought you weren't going to compare it to vCoH rofl

How is vCoH's small arms system any more complex than CoH2's? Well, besides the target table shit, but that wouldn't even matter here.


Well for starters, infantry had different armour classes which determined how certain weapons will effect them - on top of range, weapon class, accuracy etc.

Target tables did influence how certain weapons dd more damage to some armour classes as well as different unit types - so yes it did have a huge effect on this situation.

I'm not expert on this but I do know just by seeing the game how simplistic ( and failed) the COH2 system is. It only takes 20 mins in each game to see huge differences.
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AchtAchter
21 Dec 2014, 12:13 PM
#23
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I remember people were whining that weapons are not lethal enough, so relic was listening to the community and march deployment patch happened.

I have no problems with the small arms fire lethality, in any other other case cover would matter less and you could charge enemies without losing any models.
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herr anfsim
21 Dec 2014, 13:15 PM
#24
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I think the increased weapons lethality was a great improvement to the game. It makes cower and smart manouevering more important, while it punishes blindly charging across open ground.
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Katitof
21 Dec 2014, 14:22 PM
#25
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Small arms lethality is fine.

Ober DPS and volks and obers durability once vetted is anything but fine.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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comm_ash
21 Dec 2014, 16:16 PM
#26
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I agree that the problem is not infantry DPS, but lategame infantry that ignore the rules other infantry must live by.

Example: Shocks have an armor value to allow them to take less damage while closing into short range to deal damage. Shocks can sit at long range and use the armor to tank damage for a long period of time. However, they do so by giving up their ability to deal damage. Obers do not have this problem. They have received accuracy modifiers, enabling them to tank damage at all ranges. However, being a long range squad, they do not need the received accuracy modifier as much as say shocks, which leads to obers sitting at long range melting close range infantry. By scaling the received accuracy/ armor values to the unit they are applied to, I believe we can see a much better balanced lategame.
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pigsoup
21 Dec 2014, 17:32 PM
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jump backJump back to quoted post21 Dec 2014, 04:52 AMJadame!
Personally i am sick of panzershreck lethality, damn thing snipes infantry too often.


this and obers
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luvnest
21 Dec 2014, 17:46 PM
#28
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I love the weapons lethality. Punished you for bad tactical movement.

I also agree about AT weapons sniping infantry, that's horrible aswell.

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Thunderhun
21 Dec 2014, 17:50 PM
#29
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I love Obers's DPS...punishes you for even playing the game :P
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Stafkeh
21 Dec 2014, 18:09 PM
#30
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I think its pretty normal your units die when closing in on an enemy squad in cover.. Late game infantry is just the problem (like enough people already mentioned in the thread).

Also agreed with the OKW shreck sniping units..
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swiffy
21 Dec 2014, 18:40 PM
#31
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Coming from CoH1 I understand your sentiment, OP. If you made swift and good decisions in CoH1 you could avoid a lot of damage from infantry.

For the people saying that it's a learn to play issue, I'd say that's kind of true. I think it's a learn to play CoH2 issue. The exact same good tactical decisions in CoH1 will have a different result in CoH2. In the case of weapon lethality, infantry will take more damage than someone like me is used to.

It can make a major difference too. For example, 4 rifle squads in CoH1 making sound tactical decisions and avoiding taking damage may be critical in arriving at a surround / flank of the enemy wehrmacht position. While in CoH2, I don't think I can expect my squads to skirt around the battlefield, manipulating the enemy position while searching for the opening.

Sooo, while I would agree that higher weapons lethality may punish bad tactical movement, I would also conclude that it rewards lackluster tactical movement.
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HS King
21 Dec 2014, 22:03 PM
#32
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jump backJump back to quoted post21 Dec 2014, 18:40 PMswiffy
Coming from CoH1 I understand your sentiment, OP. If you made swift and good decisions in CoH1 you could avoid a lot of damage from infantry.

For the people saying that it's a learn to play issue, I'd say that's kind of true. I think it's a learn to play CoH2 issue. The exact same good tactical decisions in CoH1 will have a different result in CoH2. In the case of weapon lethality, infantry will take more damage than someone like me is used to.

It can make a major difference too. For example, 4 rifle squads in CoH1 making sound tactical decisions and avoiding taking damage may be critical in arriving at a surround / flank of the enemy wehrmacht position. While in CoH2, I don't think I can expect my squads to skirt around the battlefield, manipulating the enemy position while searching for the opening.

Sooo, while I would agree that higher weapons lethality may punish bad tactical movement, I would also conclude that it rewards lackluster tactical movement.


Perfectly said man
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Mr. Someguy
23 Dec 2014, 00:07 AM
#33
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Personally I don't want to go back to the days of every battle being decided by upgrades and abilities because every unit had pea shooters. People wanted vCoH style lethality, and they got it. Now we want CoH2 Alpha style tankiness back?
jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jan 2016, 01:09 AMluvnest
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Sex Captain
23 Dec 2014, 10:06 AM
#34
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Yo Baba

I agree units do die far to easy, this in turn stops us purchasing certain units. For example when was the last time you got a German sniper, and don't get me started on the fragile scout car, with that you only need harsh language.

stay safe and always use protection
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elchino7
23 Dec 2014, 20:23 PM
#35
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jump backJump back to quoted post23 Dec 2014, 00:07 AMMr. Someguy
Personally I don't want to go back to the days of every battle being decided by upgrades and abilities because every unit had pea shooters. People wanted vCoH style lethality, and they got it. Now we want CoH2 Alpha style tankiness back?


We still get combats decided by upgrades and abilities.

Early lethality is fine, mid-late game LMG playstyle is a bit over the top.
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And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.

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