Im putting it out there, infantry dies way too quickly. I would say 20-30% less damage to all small arms fire and maybe 45-50% to obers.
Right now its plain ridiculous - infantry cant move for one second without taking losses. How are you meant to maneuver your men?
This is especially bad for ostheer as they only have 4 man squads, and none of them have armour to soak up any damage.
I would recommend different squad/ and individual infantry health and addition of armour to most infantry types - or a simpler but worse fix of reducing small arms damage.
The reason this did not work in the early stages of the game was the terrible idea of giving each unit a secondary fire ability that basically killed most of a squad in one second with no downside.. I feel this has been addressed a little bit.
Edit: all flamers to do less damage and drastically reduce the chance of insta kill crits
IS anyone sick of "weapons lethality"?
21 Dec 2014, 02:37 AM
#1
Posts: 331
21 Dec 2014, 02:46 AM
#2
Posts: 1248
learn to be more responsive in your actions 
21 Dec 2014, 03:11 AM
#3
Posts: 306
Im putting it out there, infantry dies way too quickly. I would say 20-30% less damage to all small arms fire and maybe 45-50% to obers.
Right now its plain ridiculous - infantry cant move for one second without taking losses. How are you meant to maneuver your men?
This is especially bad for ostheer as they only have 4 man squads, and none of them have armour to soak up any damage.
I would recommend different squad/ and individual infantry health and addition of armour to most infantry types - or a simpler but worse fix of reducing small arms damage.
The reason this did not work in the early stages of the game was the terrible idea of giving each unit a secondary fire ability that basically killed most of a squad in one second with no downside.. I feel this has been addressed a little bit.
Edit: all flamers to do less damage and drastically reduce the chance of insta kill crits
Right now I feel infantry combat is too RNG favored, Anne frankly, i dont think its the lethality thats the problem, but more of the current infantry combat system at fault.
Why is it RNG favored?
Because its always whichever squad can get the lucky 1st volley that has the advantage. Ever had a gren take a nasty volley and drop to 3 men instantly? Thats what I mean. There's no skill involved, just RNG.
I feel like if rates of fire were to increase and overall accuracy decreased, we would get more consistent performance for more troops across the board. This would also be an indirect buffage to the COVER SYSTEM as more consistency = longer engagements (also a small side help to the blobbing issue due to less burst).
Lol but knowing relic, not gonna happen.
P.S. Does anyone else feel rifle weapons should perform better at long range than short? Personally, I think most of the rifle profiles should be reworked, especially fire on the move
21 Dec 2014, 03:24 AM
#4
Posts: 331
Right now I feel infantry combat is too RNG favored, Anne frankly, i dont think its the lethality thats the problem, but more of the current infantry combat system at fault.
Why is it RNG favored?
Because its always whichever squad can get the lucky 1st volley that has the advantage. Ever had a gren take a nasty volley and drop to 3 men instantly? Thats what I mean. There's no skill involved, just RNG.
I feel like if rates of fire were to increase and overall accuracy decreased, we would get more consistent performance for more troops across the board. This would also be an indirect buffage to the COVER SYSTEM as more consistency = longer engagements (also a small side help to the blobbing issue due to less burst).
Lol but knowing relic, not gonna happen.
P.S. Does anyone else feel rifle weapons should perform better at long range than short? Personally, I think most of the rifle profiles should be reworked, especially fire on the move
Hmm yeah that happens too. I think its just an overly simplistic mechanism that translates into too much rng, and too little consistency across the whole game.
This is what happens when Relic reduces the very complex but excellent mechanics of COH into the basic and impossible to balance mechanics of COH2.
21 Dec 2014, 04:20 AM
#5
Posts: 829
Just no. Your units should die, its war. Mistakes should be punished and good work rewarded.
I for one don't want to go back to time where one could get flanked, make mistake and just press 'R' with almost no consequence or none at all
I for one don't want to go back to time where one could get flanked, make mistake and just press 'R' with almost no consequence or none at all
21 Dec 2014, 04:34 AM
#6
Posts: 976
I think the same, infantry should survive a bit more than now. Ober's range power is part of the problem with the distance between soldiers (cover).
thanks
thanks
VoltarDark
Long live to COH3, the new king of all team RTS !
Long live to COH3, the new king of all team RTS !
21 Dec 2014, 04:41 AM
#7
Posts: 818
I think making infantry gain fewer accuracy bonuses on vet and or more recieved accuracy ones might help to reduce lethality by mitigating the more lethal weapons and upgrades in addition to the more impactful offensive bonuses that occur later in the game. This would make aoe weapons and grenades, tanks much more effective by comparison to small arms, but it would make infantry fights progress slower. So its a trade off really, but it would have the desired effect
Edit: this would probably also make cqb units stronger since it will be less punishing to close, but i would want them to try this and see if it makes it more rewarding to walk to cover b/c right now you can lose like several models trying to get to cover which makes it not that valuable and i think that is undesirable
Edit: this would probably also make cqb units stronger since it will be less punishing to close, but i would want them to try this and see if it makes it more rewarding to walk to cover b/c right now you can lose like several models trying to get to cover which makes it not that valuable and i think that is undesirable
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21 Dec 2014, 04:41 AM
#8
Posts: 3293
because when at war the humane thing to do is shoot rubber bullets at eachother. 
i really only have an issue with the things that deal splash damage not how fast units die to regular fire just how many at a time. (aka squadwipes)
i really only have an issue with the things that deal splash damage not how fast units die to regular fire just how many at a time. (aka squadwipes)
Failure is always an option. 
It's a happy massacre?! (yes, yes it is!)
Caffeine illegal for WiFi's to ingest in 48 states, 2 colonies, and 1 providences. 
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and remember kids, we didn't start the flame-war!
21 Dec 2014, 04:52 AM
#9
Posts: 1122
Personally i am sick of panzershreck lethality, damn thing snipes infantry too often.
21 Dec 2014, 05:09 AM
#10
Posts: 1963 | Subs: 1
Nope, not me. I for one like the weapons lethality. In one way, I prefer CoH1 for the artillery being so effective and useful while on the other hand, I prefer CoH2 because infantry die faster. Though there's only one squad that kill realistically...
Maybe a poll would have helped to find out other's opinion.
Airsoft time!!!
Maybe a poll would have helped to find out other's opinion.
because when at war the humane thing to do is shoot rubber bullets at eachother.
i really only have an issue with the things that deal splash damage not how fast units die to regular fire just how many at a time. (aka squadwipes)
Airsoft time!!!
_____________________________________________________________________________
21 Dec 2014, 06:32 AM
#11
Posts: 2070
during late game, infantry die either too fast or they don't die at all (vet 5 volks)
Axis doesn't have the best AT options in the game
21 Dec 2014, 07:20 AM
#12
Posts: 331
Just no. Your units should die, its war. Mistakes should be punished and good work rewarded.
I for one don't want to go back to time where one could get flanked, make mistake and just press 'R' with almost no consequence or none at all
You see in the good old days when you just pressed R there were consequences. You lost map control, you struggled to get it back, you lost pop cap and you slowed down tech.
None of that matters in COH2 - but its still better to have infantry battles that progress in a more linear fashion than an on/off switch live or die. In my opinion that is
21 Dec 2014, 07:27 AM
#13
Posts: 331
I see there are mixed opinions - I agree with the COH arty - it was fantastic. The arty in COH 2 is not so good.
I'm for small arms being able to kill ( not like original COH2 release) but its over the top now.
You literally lose 1-2 guys just moving from cover to cover - thats why there are not soft retreats in this game, no real maneuvers or jostling for positions.
It's not "realistic" because firefights can last hours in real life, its not fun, because the only strat that works is stop and fire ( on the move you die cos your enemy might stop and you lose a guy or two instantly) and it does not improve the game.
There are many things they can do to improve it - but the outcome I'd like is a more linear and slower progression when it comes to small inf combat - so you could scout enemies, soft peddle away, out maneuver the enemy without instantly losing half your squad in one second - even builder units can wipe out one model in a single volley.
I'm for small arms being able to kill ( not like original COH2 release) but its over the top now.
You literally lose 1-2 guys just moving from cover to cover - thats why there are not soft retreats in this game, no real maneuvers or jostling for positions.
It's not "realistic" because firefights can last hours in real life, its not fun, because the only strat that works is stop and fire ( on the move you die cos your enemy might stop and you lose a guy or two instantly) and it does not improve the game.
There are many things they can do to improve it - but the outcome I'd like is a more linear and slower progression when it comes to small inf combat - so you could scout enemies, soft peddle away, out maneuver the enemy without instantly losing half your squad in one second - even builder units can wipe out one model in a single volley.
21 Dec 2014, 07:53 AM
#14
Posts: 935
Early infantry fights are quite predictable. So learn to play. This game pretend to E sport, in that case player must have good micro and multitasking. If one of them doesn't have it he will certainly lose.
21 Dec 2014, 08:19 AM
#15
Posts: 273
I dont know what is people's problem with RNG. This game is just not like Age of Empires.. CoH has RNG, as "life" has luck. It is a part of game. Isnt the equation like that? Skill + Luck = Success
21 Dec 2014, 08:59 AM
#16
3 
Posts: 368
Just no. Your units should die, its war. Mistakes should be punished and good work rewarded.
I for one don't want to go back to time where one could get flanked, make mistake and just press 'R' with almost no consequence or none at all
You see in the good old days when you just pressed R there were consequences. You lost map control, you struggled to get it back, you lost pop cap and you slowed down tech.
None of that matters in COH2 - but its still better to have infantry battles that progress in a more linear fashion than an on/off switch live or die. In my opinion that is
/Uninstalled
21 Dec 2014, 09:00 AM
#17
Posts: 2779
during late game, infantry die either too fast or they don't die at all (vet 5 volks)
THIS
Reason that I quitted it.
21 Dec 2014, 09:09 AM
#18
Posts: 829
You see in the good old days when you just pressed R there were consequences. You lost map control, you struggled to get it back, you lost pop cap and you slowed down tech.
None of that matters in COH2 - but its still better to have infantry battles that progress in a more linear fashion than an on/off switch live or die. In my opinion that is
I think you are talking about VCOH. I am talking about early days of COH2 when it took 5 minutes to de-crew HMG. And you could have 2 sips of coffee before retreating without losing single model.
BTW, in COH units died quite quickly too but there was far less squad wipes from mortars, tanks, etc. And all these medium ranged rocket launchers (Zis etc) do a lot of squad wipes that didn't exist in COH, pretty much.
Maybe I am wrong, but I think your problem might be there. Not infantry wiping infantry late game.
Thats what I really dislike about infantry survaivability.
21 Dec 2014, 09:11 AM
#19
Posts: 62
Infantry weapons are generally good except for the case of the lmg34 and the oberkommando's infanty dodging bullets. The lethality of everything else is increased by how infantry bunch up now days,losing 2-3 models is fine but losing an entire squad because they basically standing on top each other is crippling.
21 Dec 2014, 09:44 AM
#20
Posts: 331
I think you are talking about VCOH. I am talking about early days of COH2 when it took 5 minutes to de-crew HMG. And you could have 2 sips of coffee before retreating without losing single model.
BTW, in COH units died quite quickly too but there was far less squad wipes from mortars, tanks, etc. And all these medium ranged rocket launchers (Zis etc) do a lot of squad wipes that didn't exist in COH, pretty much.
Maybe I am wrong, but I think your problem might be there. Not infantry wiping infantry late game.
Thats what I really dislike about infantry survaivability.
I remember the early COH2 days too - they were terrible, but even more so due to the secondary fire ability where molatove could burn 3 men in half a second, and rifle nade dide the same. Combine that with inf units barely doing any damage and there be no real pressing need for munis, every single engagement ended up in molotovs being thrown and ost running back to base.
In COH the units can indeed die quickly ( getting cught up close to mg fire, non fighitng units getting focus fired, being out in the open with more than one squad shooting or a powerful squad engeging them at their optimal range etc but it was good that way.
As it stands now, a combat engineer unit can take on a gren unit in the beginning of the game and win - and its not some rarity. Its reproducible and happens a lot.
I totally agree with your other points too - just adding in clarification.
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