Panzer II Luchs

Simple question, don't you think it's little OP? I think there is no other unit with such huge impact when hit battleground. IS2, ISU152, King Tiger, Panther, Sherman... None of these can achive 30-40 models in first 4-6mins since the entrance.

The worst is OKW vs USF when USF player went for Lieutenant. Even with dropped AT gun with Airborne, Luchs can just wipe everything cause of pudding Rifle AT nades.
It's really fast, great rate of fire, can flank AT guns without any problems, small target size, stealth mode. Captain can't even aim and fire with bazooka cause Luchs will wipe whole squad faster.

When compared to Stuart or T70, Luchs is deadly for infantry. Imagine situation where Volks with schreck couldn't shoot at Stuart because they were wiped by Stuart faster.
It's a light tank but bazookas are useless since Luchs will wipe whole squad faster.

If you find window gap to use Luchs it's so punishing you can't do anything to counter this until Sherman or T34 but even then, Sherman is pushed back by Volks.

Luchs is very low risk unit and really, really high reward.

I remember time when t70 was wiping everything behind lines and what? Nerf.
Volley fire? It was too punishing for Axis to retreat unit so early because of this ability and what? Kubel.


Luchs:

• 345 MP 50 F
  
• 400 HP
  
• 55/35 Armor
  
• 18 Target size
  
• 20 Damage
  
• 25-15 Penetration
  
• 7 shots per burst (!!!!)
  
• 2 AoE
  
  Stuart
  • 240 MP 70 F
    
  • 320 HP
    
  • 80/50 Armor
    
  • 19 Target Size
    
  • 80 Damage
    
  • 60-40 Penetration
    
  • 1 Shot per burst
    
  • 1,75 AoE
    
    T70
    • 200 MP 70 F
      
    • 320 HP
      
    • 70/35 Armor
      
    • 18 Target Size
      
    • 40 Damage
      
    • 50-40 Penetration
      
    • 1 Shot per burst
      
    • 2,5 AoE
      
      
      
      
    
    
    
  
  
  

Me thinks you doth protest too much. And only ever on one side of the equation. Seriously, its fine.

I'm ok with its performance. My main issue is it has more health than the T70 and the Stuart. What's with 400hp for the P2 only anyway? I'd say it's only OP in it's extra health compared to other light tanks. It can take 3 hits from AT gun while others only 2.

I'm ok with it's performance. My main issue is it has more health than the T70 and the Stuart. What's with 400hp for the P2 only anyway? I'd say it's only OP in it's extra health compared to other light tanks. It can take 3 hits from AT gun while others only 2.

Only hp? Compare effectiveness vs infantry between Luchs, Stuart and T70.

Or watch this.
Its impact on the game is huge when compare to halftruck for example.

Me thinks you doth protest too much. And only ever on one side of the equation. Seriously, its fine.

panzer II is so much better than t70 or stuart, if its "fine" then it counterparts are completely underpowered

It's fine as it is.

panzer II is so much better than t70 or stuart, if its "fine" then it counterparts are completely underpowered

A direct statwise comparison is not terribly meaningful to begin with, at least in this case. All of the aforrmentioned operate under vastly different tech progressions, embedded in a different faction dynamic etc.. Going Luchs means that any hard AT (meaning the Panther) is gonna come even later and will leave you wide open to medium Armour. A 10 minute Sherman/T34 is entirely realistic which means that your window of opportunity for the Luchs is very, very small. That being said, if left unchecked, the Luchs indeed can be a high impact unit, and I would rate its utility greater than that of the Stuart and about equal to that of the T-70.

Comes at the right time and is not overperforming IMO. Pure AI tank and zooks aren't that useless.
btw if the luchs get 30-40 kills in the first 4-6 minutes, someone is doing something terribly wrong

The only real problem with the Luchs is when it comes out, I actually find that the T70 does better damage, but comes out slightly later.

Comes at the right time and is not overperforming IMO. Pure AI tank and zooks aren't that useless.

Pure AI tank? it can rape AA halftracks

It's fine as it is.

So it's fine that hard counter for Luchs is Sherman ot T34 but for Stuart or T70 all you need are Volks?

A direct statwise comparison is not terribly meaningful to begin with, at least in this case. All of the aforrmentioned operate under vastly different tech progressions, embedded in a different faction dynamic etc.. Going Luchs means that any hard AT (meaning the Panther) is gonna come even later and will leave you wide open to medium Armour. A 10 minute Sherman/T34 is entirely realistic which means that your window of opportunity for the Luchs is very, very small. That being said, if left unchecked, the Luchs indeed can be a high impact unit, and I would rate its utility greater than that of the Stuart and about equal to that of the T-70.

OKW is never open to medium armor because of Volks. Volks + 1 Raketen and Sherman can take 1 shot, maybe 2 and has to retreat to get repairs. 10 min Shermans is realistic but only with Lieutenant, without any weapon upgrade and without loosing fuel. With Captain it's rather around 12min. But if you go for Lieutenant you are open to Luchs - no AT. Although T34 is normal around 10min but still, it's pushed back just with Volks.

Point is, T70 and Stuart are very easily countered by infantry while Captain can't fire with bazookas because Luch will wipe full squad faster.

Yes, T70 does better damage but it can be countered by Volks and it won't get 20-40 kills in 4-7mins just by running around map and pushing base.



Well, it's not pure AI. I saw replays where Luchs was chasing down KV8...

I find it mostly ok. The only thing I don't like when facing it is that the USF anti-tank nade takes so long to fire. Because of this, Luchs either kills the squad while you are trying to nade it, sometimes even wiping the squad before the nades comes out, or the Luchs kills the squad on retreat. If you could nade and then run immediately like it is with cons or grenadiers, I would have no problem with it.

Pure AI tank? it can rape AA halftracks

As we saw in the tournament, AAHT vs Luchs is a very close matchup. And how fast can the AAHT be fielded?
Imo the SdKfz 222 needs to be closer to the Luchs in firepower. They do have the same loadout afterall

I think the damage output is a bit over the top BUT OKW player is sacrificing fuel for this little monster. WHY tell me WHY is the Stuart completely SUCK against infantry in contrast to T-70 and Luchs? I have the hardest time wiping out infantry on the run when I am chasing it for miles & miles. Stuart needs a DPS buff!

I actually like the T70 better as its recon ability is that of a 222 and it has the firepower of a Luchs if you count its AOE. I have no problems kiting shrek squads with a T70 and once they reach Vet 2 which if used well shouldnt be long they can absolutely MURDER shrek squads.

I also think the Luchs is fine other then why it has so many HPs. Thats kind of silly. Perhaps a HP reduction or a cost increase is in order.

I think the damage output is a bit over the top BUT OKW player is sacrificing fuel for this little monster. WHY tell me WHY is the Stuart completely SUCK against infantry in contrast to T-70 and Luchs? I have the hardest time wiping out infantry on the run when I am chasing it for miles & miles. Stuart needs a DPS buff!

Yes, OKW player is sacrificing fuel but is it punishing? Volks with Schrecks and raketen can deny Sherman or T34 for long enough. On the onther hand, making Stuart and delaying Sherman can be deadly once Obers arrive. So for USF it's high risk, little reward. For OKW it's very low risk and high reward.

And yes, Stuart sucks.

For Luchs defenders, please, show me any other unit with such huge impact and ability to wipe units which should be soft-counters, like Captain.

I'm ok with it's performance. My main issue is it has more health than the T70 and the Stuart. What's with 400hp for the P2 only anyway? I'd say it's only OP in it's extra health compared to other light tanks. It can take 3 hits from AT gun while others only 2.

I agree completely, at least with regard to 1v1.

For Luchs defenders, please, show me any other unit with such huge impact and ability to wipe units which should be soft-counters, like Captain.

AA Halftrack
M20
Greyhound
T70
M5 (Quad or flame garrison)

All of which can take on shreck squads pretty easily. Special mention to the Greyhound for the skill shot ability, the AAHT for suppression on the move, and the M20 for having such a massive impact that Ostheer made nearly a complete no-show in the tournament. All of these vehicles (bar the Greyhound, not too sure about it) featured at one point or another in the recent tournament, and all made a very good showing of themselves (M5 only appeared once, true, but it pretty much won that game outright)

I knew I forgot one unit in my list in that other OKW thread about which units will be the next target of complaint if Obersoldaten get nerfed, damn!

AA Halftrack
M20
Greyhound
T70
M5 (Quad or flame garrison)

All of which can take on shreck squads pretty easily. Special mention to the Greyhound for the skill shot ability, the AAHT for suppression on the move, and the M20 for having such a massive impact that Ostheer made nearly a complete no-show in the tournament. All of these vehicles (bar the Greyhound, not too sure about it) featured at one point or another in the recent tournament, and all made a very good showing of themselves (M5 only appeared once, true, but it pretty much won that game outright)

And none of there can kill 20-40 models in 10mins. None of these can make huge manpower drain.

I tried to use Greyhound many times and I don't know what's so OP about this. I wiped only ONE squad in 5-6 games. But even tho, it costs ammo. Luchs can just run around and wipe eveyrhing. No cooldown, no munition.

AA haltrack is powerful but it's not wiping squads - unless you will just sit in front and do nothing. All you need to do is retreat and attack with Volks+Puma, Puma, Volks+Raketen or Volks+Luchs.

T70? Really? It's potent when used right but far away from Luchs can do. Volks can deal with T70.

When M5 arrives, Axis will have many soft counters. I saw few times M5 with 30+ kills BUT it's not easy. On the other hand, Luchs does not need so much micro and again, no muni (M5 needs expesive upgrade).

None of these units can provide huge bleed like Luchs and none of these are so easy to use.



Oh, and don't forget about HP. Luchs has 400, rest 240-320.