Fixes for the game's worst abilities.

In 2v2 game as USF/SOV:

1. Build a vehicle
2. Decrew it
3. Let your soviet ally to capture it
4. Enjoy your free SMG squad

PROFIT!

Vehicle crew blobs are the new USF meta.

VEHICLE DETECTION Form elite armor ?
this ability better than Call 2 panzer 4 with luck vet and I think usefulness form 5 ability for this commander for now
can useful for predict some tank and set AT Gun

I'm sorry, I don't quite understand what you're saying. The idea of Vehicle detection isn't bad. It's not, however, worth 60 munitions and 4 command points. To put it into perspective, at 4CP with the partisan tactics commander, you can reveal the entire map for 50 munitions. How does 60 munitions for a WORSE ability make sense?

The M3 with Assault Engineers can reinforce squads.

Historically, its armour protection is identical to that of the M3A1 Scout Car, and M5 Halftrack (M5 armour needed to be thicker because its production method meant it was less protective for the same thickness).

The real problem is the M3 as seen in USF Mechanized, only has 200 health. Thats 10 more health than a Kubel!

Sorry about the mistakes regarding the USF. I'm a player of all factions but I mainly play soviet and wehr. I wanted to throw in some USF abilities to be fair. I have this list saved on a note pad. I'll be sure to make changes to it and add to it based on feedback from you guys. I'll repost the list when enough changes have been made. Hopefully relic will see this!

Another useless ability—actually harmful to the player—is Soviet Industry. It fulfills its purpose for about two minutes at some point before skewing the player's economy too radically into more fuel and minimal manpower. If you lose a tank, someone without Industry could replace it faster because you are always waiting on manpower. Any effective infantry force becomes impossible to maintain.

Industry was always a bit dicey. They buffed it and nerfed it numerous times. I think it just screws with the base game mechanics too much to the point were it can never really be in a good spot. I always thought that it would be a better idea to replace the industry ability with Zis supply trucks. Basically it would be an opel blitz supply truck re-skin for the soviets (Zis trucks already exist in the game, so I couldn't imagine it would be too hard to implement). This way, you can still have your manpower, still get your fuel, it still fits into the theme of the commander, and the enemy can counter simply by destroying the trucks.

Hey guys, thanks for the feedback, i'll be sure to make some changes to this list. I also wanted to point out something peculiar. Have you noticed that the OKW can receive multiple abilities in one command point ability? For instance, they can get "Heavy Fortifications" which includes Tank Traps, Flak Emplacements, and Trenches......how is this fair in comparison to the Wehrmacht? For some reason, the wehr sets aside trenches in their own command point ability THEN tank traps are also their own command point ability so for commanders like the Defense Doctrine, that's 2 command point slots wasted on not so stellar abilities. I wouldn't mind if trenches were available at 0CP, that would be very useful, but it's the same CP cost as "Heavy Fortifications" That implies that the abilities are equal when fortifications is clearly miles better. Another one the OKW can do, is "Field Defenses" where VG's can build bunkers and anti-personnel mine fields. The soviet's "Defense Tactics" gets an anti-personnel mine. Not only can you not place these mines like you would a mine field (you need to place them 1 by 1, though queuing orders with shift helps) but it is an unlock at 2 CP. Why not just allow them to build a 60 munition mine field at 0CP? I know it's fun and exiting when new stuff is added to the game, but when new things are added, the old things need to be updated in order to compete.

Industry was always a bit dicey. They buffed it and nerfed it numerous times. I think it just screws with the base game mechanics too much to the point were it can never really be in a good spot. I always thought that it would be a better idea to replace the industry ability with Zis supply trucks. Basically it would be an opel blitz supply truck re-skin for the soviets (Zis trucks already exist in the game, so I couldn't imagine it would be too hard to implement). This way, you can still have your manpower, still get your fuel, it still fits into the theme of the commander, and the enemy can counter simply by destroying the trucks.

I like that idea. The ability could also be a toggle like the OKW mechanised truck's fuel conversion (sacrifices manpower instead).

I'm sorry, I don't quite understand what you're saying. The idea of Vehicle detection isn't bad. It's not, however, worth 60 munitions and 4 command points. To put it into perspective, at 4CP with the partisan tactics commander, you can reveal the entire map for 50 munitions. How does 60 munitions for a WORSE ability make sense?

your topic tell about Worst abilities and I think Vehicle detection not worst abilities
Call in 2 Panzer 4 with random vet it useless for this commander ok?

hey, they mightn't be very good tanks, but at least, THEY ARE tanks...

Vehicle detection I've yet to put to any good use. I just use my ears and listen for tanks, far more efficient and it tells me which tank it is...

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sometime I try to use this skill form location some mobile arty like katyusha
and send Pz II for sneak Atk or use Stuka rocket barrage
this good idea?

your topic tell about Worst abilities and I think Vehicle detection not worst abilities
Call in 2 Panzer 4 with random vet it useless for this commander ok?

Isn't he talking about soviet ability? And i dont think two p4s are useless. It gives okw, a faction that lacks all rounded medium tanks, medium tanks

I'm sorry, I don't quite understand what you're saying. The idea of Vehicle detection isn't bad. It's not, however, worth 60 munitions and 4 command points. To put it into perspective, at 4CP with the partisan tactics commander, you can reveal the entire map for 50 munitions. How does 60 munitions for a WORSE ability make sense?

This sort of thing frequently comes up in balance discussions, but have people considered that abilities/units are balanced within the faction they exist in, rather purely objectively? Whether you think this is a good or bad idea, doesn't it seem plausible for how relic balanced the game?

In 2v2 game as USF/SOV:

1. Build a vehicle
2. Decrew it
3. Let your soviet ally to capture it
4. Enjoy your free SMG squad

PROFIT!

except the tank is better with a vehicle crew in it because they can get out and repair it and the SMGs cost 70 mun... it does let you easily feed tanks to your ally though.

This sort of thing frequently comes up in balance discussions, but have people considered that abilities/units are balanced within the faction they exist in, rather purely objectively? Whether you think this is a good or bad idea, doesn't it seem plausible for how relic balanced the game?

it sounds like a nice idea.

except that relic's track record is the opposite and even on the soviets it's not a good ability.

posts combined, please DELETE

This sort of thing frequently comes up in balance discussions, but have people considered that abilities/units are balanced within the faction they exist in, rather purely objectively? Whether you think this is a good or bad idea, doesn't it seem plausible for how relic balanced the game?

Sorry about the misunderstanding, i meant vehicle detection for the SOVIETS. It's not balanced within the faction because the soviets also get the "spy network" ability. Why would the player pay 60 munitions for VD when spy network is much better for less munitions. When I edit my list I'll make sure to specify which faction I'm talking about.

While there are some abilities that are UP, some fixes are overkills or some abilities are on a fine position.

While there are some abilities that are UP, some fixes are overkills or some abilities are on a fine position.

If the list, which fixes do you think are overkil and which are fine? These are abilities I NEVER see people use so I think some overkill is needed in order to see them being used for once.

Updated list on the way.

As noted, the M5 with assault engis can reinforce squads and it's basically the only reason to get the thing. It's so fragile though that you almost have to use it like an ambulance that can sort of defend itself against pure AI units. It's still pretty funny to watch how poorly it deals with obers. Mechanized doesn't have much going for it other than the early kubel counter and the awesome arty so I think the M5 could easily use a health buff to add more to the commander.

+1 to this thread

If the list, which fixes do you think are overkil and which are fine? These are abilities I NEVER see people use so I think some overkill is needed in order to see them being used for once.

Most of the abilities made passive are overkill.

Vehicle detection: make it 3CP passive for cons.

Fear propaganda: it's on a fine state

Rapid conscriptions: your suggestions are just over. The ability needs some tweaks but not what you suggest.
Relief Infantry: similar

Trenches: what's wrong with them? They are free so...

Con repair: fine

Dodge: yeah, a bit underwhelming. 15fuel could work.

M5: it just needs to arrive at 2CP

Railway: 160 at minimum if you want a copy paste of a Stuka dive bomb. I'll just say that maybe add a shell and increase a bit more the spread after the first shell.

Riegel: remember that it's 100% to inmobilize. Just like the M20 mine.

Command Panzer: buff units and it's a good at AI. It's fine.

Ambush camo: passive it's too strong.


You don't go full YOLO when you suggest balance changes.