USF pop cap
Posts: 1970 | Subs: 5
Since taking on a late game axis army pretty much requires you to have huge amounts of stuff, I think a lot of USF units need to have their pop cap reduced.
For example, a panther is 16 pop cap while a jackson is 14.
The officers all have very high pop cap but don't perform very well in combat, especially the major.
The King Tiger is 26 pop cap but an equivalent amount in USF units of any kind would never stand a chance against it.
Thoughts?
Posts: 249
Posts: 1970 | Subs: 5
The only way to field more than 3 vehicles in the mid-late game is if most of your infantry dies or you decrew/recrew which is very dangerous since you can then no longer reinforce.
Posts: 249
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
And the best thing: You can't even think of combined arms, because support weapons and troops(pathfinders) will butcher your popcap for moderate at best effects.
And all that is before officers and medics, which are mandatory and still cost popcap.
USF is the only army that needs to give up popcap and fuel to heal troops.
Posts: 1970 | Subs: 5
well, you can reinforce when you decrew? o0Even if this was a viable solution (which it's not) you shouldn't have to exploit a loophole in the faction's design to compete.
Posts: 249
Even if this was a viable solution (which it's not) you shouldn't have to exploit a loophole in the faction's design to compete.
okay, now im gonna take this a little serious
I agree, the loophole isnt intended to be there, but right know USF popcap is a problem in itself.
As it is, the problem is as you stated, so change should happen. But what would it be?
If we lower the popcap of units, or increase the general popcap, the USF gets even more possibilitys to blob, which can be devasating if a game drags out ( 4vs4 generally, and probably only above 1v1).
It would get out of hand. I think the problem is the missing counter against the German Heavies, which only exist in mass producing Jacksons for the USF, and that makes it impossible to have infantry at the same time, so what the USF needs is a Unit that does not need blobbing and can counter German Heavies. An American heavy Tank i sugest, but i kinda like the way USF plays.
Posts: 1970 | Subs: 5
Posts: 543
Posts: 2053
Posts: 249
I'm all pro-reduce-US-units-pop-all-around. I don't think blobbing is an issue.
MP bleed is what falters high popcap armies, anyways. Might as well since a decent amount of USF's popcap goes to clutter you kind of need around...
The problem we are talking about most often appears in a game where the fronts are pretty dug in, so i doubt manpower will be a problem. But in this instance, blobbing, and a giant army of enemies IS a problem. I think Romeos idea of Buffing the Units a little is pretty godd, or at least giving the jackson a little more armor, so it actually has a chance against German heavies, and doesnt get oneshotet by Kingtigers.
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
So 6 Shermans vs 2 Tigers is something like 72 vs 48 so it's 28 left for inf vs 52. Oh wait... Officers
Posts: 550 | Subs: 1
1) For instance the pack-howie costs 480 manpower and will use up 11 pop cap although it should function as a slightly better mortar. That it can also damage vehicles is nice but it's too inaccurate to pose a serious threat. The same goes for the OKW isg.
2) The major needs 5 pop cap (if I recall correctly).
3) IR pathfinders are purely recon units but have a high pop cap requirement.
Other than the listed exceptions and maybe one or two that I forgot, I don't see a problem with the pop cap.
Posts: 818
8 pop LT hes basically a rifle squad 7 popcap seems fair
8 pop CT A terrible squad for the cost and pop aside from other changes that should be made =< 7
5 pop Major No combat capacity 3 popcap he either caps or stands idol all game
4 pop ambulance again no combat capacity why not put it at 3 so pop is the same decrewed
8 pop Pathfinders discuss http://www.coh2.org/topic/27842/do-pathfinders-need-to-be-2-pop
14 pop Jackson, a p4 costs the exact same as a generalist and is 12 popcap how about 12 popcap
12 pop sherman again p4 is 12 pocap sherman can be 11
After doing this we have shaved 8 pop off USF thats signifigant a free rifle squad and the vet 1 guy on a RE squad
Additionally I believe Kt should be 30-34 popcap and panther should be 18 popcap
Could also potentially just make the ambulance and each officer model(not squad) cost 0 popcap would be neat but this and other suggestions would be redesigning popcap which i don't have tons of ideas on and don't know if relic would be into that
Posts: 2070
I think its best to go unit by unit in this instance to see where changes can be made
8 pop LT hes basically a rifle squad 7 popcap seems fair
8 pop CT A terrible squad for the cost and pop aside from other changes that should be made =< 7
5 pop Major No combat capacity 3 popcap he either caps or stands idol all game
4 pop ambulance again no combat capacity why not put it at 3 so pop is the same decrewed
8 pop Pathfinders discuss http://www.coh2.org/topic/27842/do-pathfinders-need-to-be-2-pop
14 pop Jackson, a p4 costs the exact same as a generalist and is 12 popcap how about 12 popcap
12 pop sherman again p4 is 12 pocap sherman can be 11
After doing this we have shaved 8 pop off USF thats signifigant a free rifle squad and the vet 1 guy on a RE squad
Additionally I believe Kt should be 30-34 popcap and panther should be 18 popcap
Could also potentially just make the ambulance and each officer model(not squad) cost 0 popcap would be neat but this and other suggestions would be redesigning popcap which i don't have tons of ideas on and don't know if relic would be into that
i agree with honey
Posts: 140
It might force you to trade your units, but if you have a lot of units you're getting punished by manpower upkeep anyway.
Of course it might also be there to prevent the game from being too hard on people's systems, but one extra tank would hardly break that...
Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2
Permanently Banned5 rifles 1 para 189mp income
5 volks 2 sturms 219mp income
Posts: 824
I think the EXTREME usf mp bleed is a much larger issue.
5 rifles 1 para 189mp income
5 volks 2 sturms 219mp income
But the Rifles and Para would win in that engagement right? Especially with Bars/Thompsons/M1919.
Posts: 1158
The higher effeciency axis units are not well represented by their in-game costs and the lower efficiency USF units are over-represented. Paras use a lot of pop and now with their officer bonuses stripped, they are not more than riflemen with different vet and different armament choices. It's pretty common in some team games for me to hit max pop and then float 2 or 3 thousand while my opponents play catch up in army value. I don't think USF can play the same throw it away game the soviets can in a lot of extended situations.
Yes, we shouldn't have to exploit getting out of our 2 or 3 vehicles to get an extra squad.
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