Tiger Ace

I think you have to consider the whole doctrin, if you talk about the TA. What kind of changes on TA are you suggesting? Only make it cost fuel (like the normal Tiger?)

tiger ace needs to be de-nerfed. im sick and tired of u soviet industry nuts and rifle company numbskulls complaining about every single half-to-whole-good axis unit in existance

Its OP vs USF, thats all

eh, against soviet t1/t3 it's pretty strong without callins. tm-35/su chu can really mitigate it though.

Hey Romeo,

Really glad you made this thread. Been making 2 threads like this and almost no one listens how broken it is vs US.
Hope it gets a little more exposure now. You got my vote, just need to make an account.

I don't usually feel any difference between this one and the regular tiger, other than losers being able to field it without map control.

Vaz I think it's actually worse when fielded WITH map control. If you have a sherman and a jackson vs an ostwind and a P4, it's an even game. If a tiger ace then hits the field, you lose.

I've been saying this for a while; made a thread about it before. The problem of the Tiger Ace is very simple and exactly how you are describing it. it is not getting worked on because people keep confusing the issue but it is so simple.

You can't have a balanced RTS game where one player gets a very powerful unit immediately at a cheap cost. Stop confusing the issue community. Stop it right now.

I can't speak for 1's (I assume its very powerful if you get to 15 cp)

But in team games its fine, The unit reflects being the most expensive single unit in the game with the highest CP requirement in the game.

This unit is strongest when it hits the field on a somewhat even fight and is weakest when you are loosing hard. This is on a doctrine that has no offmap support, And the vet ability is something to use with care.

Overall the tank fights like a vet 3 tiger with stun shot. it doesn't have JT amounts of armor and can be disabled by a mine quite easily. Mark target also works with t34/85's And B4 is a very strong counter to it.

When he has the TA on the field he has a massive manpower disadvantage, and needs a good amount of pios to keep it near full health (3-4)

Killing the TA's support is normally the most easy way to counter it because he doesn't have the manpower to keep trading.

At the end of the day its fine in team games.

It's time to put some perspectives. First of all, since i won't dive into the gamefiles, this is just info collected from the differents stats sites which may or may not be updated, experience and memory.

-It's accelerates/decaccelerates faster
-It's hull/turret mg has higher DPS to account for the lack of gunner upgrade. The DPS is basically the same as a Tiger with a gunner.
-Increased sight (specially with bulletins)
-TWP working as Stugs TWP meaning that it doesn't target ground.
-I'm not sure but does it have 160+ hp ?
http://www.coh2-stats.com/vehicles/tiger_ace_sdkfz_181_mp
-25% less MP and 90% less fuel for as long as the TA is alive or 10 mins*
*Someone corroborate this plz.

TA cost: 800mp + 75mp*min + 90% of your fuel income. It hurts if you have map control, it doesn't if you don't have it or if you don't actually have fuel (P4 all day everyday).

On a 50/50 situation, it would have cost you 180-200f.


Why the TA is good:
-You don't have map/fuel control? Don't worry save mp.
-P4 heavy into TA. The moment you call it, you are 260f + 200mp ahead of your opponent (Tank is valued more or less as 1000mp 260f). If you trade inmediatly for example with an IS2 you are ahead.
-Trade P4 1v1 with T34s/Sherman/Jackson and then call TA.
-Use it when the game is ending since there is no drawback when the game won't last 10 more mins.
-CPs after 7-10 are obtained pretty quickly since combat scales pretty fast. 4 more CP than a normal Tiger is not as much. And still, you don't neccesarily want to get it inmediatly.

TL;DR: the unit is "fine", how you get it's not. On 2v2 is bearable since you can focus fire it with your parnter and on higher modes you have plenty of support and resources (fuel) don't matter as much.

I think you got the Idea a few nights ago after you could not finish a game because of the Tiger Ace (got both of your Shermans while base-raping). Anyways, It should definitely require fuel... and HUGE amounts. The penalty after you call it in is stupid. You can easily spam cheaper units (Stugs, P4s etc) and just call it in for the killing blow, or you can SUCK the whole game and have a stupid comeback. In 1s and 2s this unit is broken.

It's time to put some perspectives. First of all, since i won't dive into the gamefiles, this is just info collected from the differents stats sites which may or may not be updated, experience and memory.

-It's accelerates/decaccelerates faster
-It's hull/turret mg has higher DPS to account for the lack of gunner upgrade. The DPS is basically the same as a Tiger with a gunner.
-Increased sight (specially with bulletins)
-TWP working as Stugs TWP meaning that it doesn't target ground.
-I'm not sure but does it have 160+ hp ?
http://www.coh2-stats.com/vehicles/tiger_ace_sdkfz_181_mp
-25% less MP and 90% less fuel for as long as the TA is alive or 10 mins*
*Someone corroborate this plz.

TA cost: 800mp + 75mp*min + 90% of your fuel income. It hurts if you have map control, it doesn't if you don't have it or if you don't actually have fuel (P4 all day everyday).

On a 50/50 situation, it would have cost you 180-200f.


Why the TA is good:
-You don't have map/fuel control? Don't worry save mp.
-P4 heavy into TA. The moment you call it, you are 260f + 200mp ahead of your opponent (Tank is valued more or less as 1000mp 260f). If you trade inmediatly for example with an IS2 you are ahead.
-Trade P4 1v1 with T34s/Sherman/Jackson and then call TA.
-Use it when the game is ending since there is no drawback when the game won't last 10 more mins.
-CPs after 7-10 are obtained pretty quickly since combat scales pretty fast. 4 more CP than a normal Tiger is not as much. And still, you don't neccesarily want to get it inmediatly.

TL;DR: the unit is "fine", how you get it's not. On 2v2 is bearable since you can focus fire it with your parnter and on higher modes you have plenty of support and resources (fuel) don't matter as much.

TA's MP and Fuel reduction is until the unit dies.
Also, When accounting for the hull dps upgrade take into consideration it cannot shoot at aircraft like the turret can.

It should be fixed if it will cost some feul, and have a reduction of the recourses penalty.

Take into account the fact that the Turret MG having double damage still does less DPS than the regular Top MG alone. It's MG abilities still arem't as powerful as a normal Tiger.

Take into account the fact that the Turret MG having double damage still does less DPS than the regular Top MG alone. It's MG abilities still arem't as powerful as a normal Tiger.

Given the firepower of the main gun, the damage of the mg isnt that important...

TA's MP and Fuel reduction is until the unit dies.
Also, When accounting for the hull dps upgrade take into consideration it cannot shoot at aircraft like the turret can.

As i said, i'm not sure if they have fix that "feature".

Regarding the MGs, they might have not update the DPS since the top gunner DPS buff on all tanks.

This thread is not about the elite troops doctrine in its entirety, just the tiger ace.

Missing the forest for the trees.

If someone wants to create a thread about the whole forest, there's nothing stopping them.

Can't believe I'm so bored that I finally end up replying in this forum but I have to say:

This unit is strongest when it hits the field on a somewhat even fight and is weakest when you are loosing hard. This is on a doctrine that has no offmap support, And the vet ability is something to use with care.

[...]

When he has the TA on the field he has a massive manpower disadvantage, and needs a good amount of pios to keep it near full health (3-4)

Killing the TA's support is normally the most easy way to counter it because he doesn't have the manpower to keep trading.

this.

Come on Romeo surely you could counter a measly tiger, I think its a matter of L2P AT beats Tank, bish plz L2P

On a real note yeah I agree needs to be addressed