OKW, the root of most balance issues?

As the Axis you can squeeze by with a pair of MG42s, some Flammenpios, a sniper, and 4-6 PaKs. As the OKW, you can VolkShreck your way to victory.

Is this a super clear indicator of balance? I guess not. But the fact that you can basically fap, eat, and win this map/mode as the Axis while you need to be hyped up on speed and a few Red Bulls to do anything as the Allied factions should be a little telling.

That doesn't tell anything actually, especially not for Ostheer. Sure maybe OKW can do it, but support weapon spam generally never a good idea.

(In reference to 1v1s) I generally believe that OKW is the strongest faction. There are a lot of other reasons for this that other people have gone over already so I won't repeat them all here.

What seems to be happening is that the U.S. has been and still needs improvements to combat the OKW, which then has left and will continue to leave Ostheer very far behind. Not sure how the Soviets fit into this because I don't play them as much, but popular opinion seems to be that they're suffering from this system as well. Of course it isn't as easy as nerf one faction, buff the next because there are a lot of complex mechanics and strategies at play here.

IMO the biggest problem as others have said is the OKW infantry and the whole vet 5 system. Sure early game if I go rifle commander my riflemen are relatively strong and eventually get 3 vetted and dps gun upgrades but eventually okw inf in the long run just make my riflemen worthless as they can no longer even stand toe to toe with okw inf and usually I am needing all forms of AT by then so my riflemen dps goes down even further by getting zooks (sometimes I don't know why I bother because they suck compared to shreks). ALso there dps does not seem to be hurt nearly as much by having shreks which helps them quickly get xp as others have said and decimates any medium armor and does fairly well against soviet heavy armor almost making there infantry a counter to everything in the game. When they get vet 5 even multiple katusha barrages does not seem to stop them nothing like the walking stukka which is another problem a believe that is capable of wiping vet 3 riflemen easily which hurts even more because I am starting back with fresh inf but they still have vet 5. Why do okw have shreks anyway? Why can they not think of some other form of AT infantry gun thats unique to okw that dosen't do so much dmg to vet them so quickly and make there infantry OP and that way osth can keep there shreks and not be hurt. I mean allied inf at is just crap for one, but mostly I think the shreks are just too good vs medium armor promoting shrek mobs. I see okw guys in 4v4 all the time that do nothing but mob vet inf volks with shreks and ober or fuse and save just enough pop to make a tiger at the end and that's all they need because there inf is a counter to everything allied except maybe if we are allowed to have a bunch of priest to down there trucks. Oh and the flak truck doing the dmg it does to shermans come on its a friggin tank thats crap.

Since I play mostly/only USF, I disagree.

Since i, and everyone, can check the leaderboards i disagree.
USF/OKW/Soviet/OH

Omgpop 1/14/7/3
Jesulin 2/3/1/1
Spanky 3/40/310/38
Ihitto 4/26/128/28
Holyhammer 5/9/13/15
Luvnest 6/7/2/9
Geimfari 7/22/29/203
Fancy 8/5/3/7
Giap 9/10/11/6

I could continue. 90% of the people on top100 have at least 1 more faction ,if not all, on top100.

#facts #GGWP

@Rocket.
First paragraph.
While i may agree up to some point on the general idea i'm gonna correct some missconceptions. Indirect fire and tank shells doesn't get affected* (*negligible) by their veterancy.
Finally: if you are gonna play as USF at 3v3+, better you be the only USF player or you are really gonna have a bad time. USF is design to be a heavy ability micro faction on the late game.

Flaq hq shouldn't suppress or penetrate med tanks

I agree with lemon again. If you lose your Schwerer HQ before your panther comes out you will probably lose the game. Just because it's "easy" doesn't mean it isn't risky.

I do think the gun is too strong though. It shouldn't target aircraft and it shouldn't be so good against tanks. Alternatively it should be an optional munitions upgrade. It also needs its range indicator fixed.

It's ridiculous how you can't even take on the HQ with a Sherman!

I can take on the HQ with a Sherman, but it's a bad idea because there are usually Panzerschrecks nearby.

Since i, and everyone, can check the leaderboards i disagree.
USF/OKW/Soviet/OH

Omgpop 1/14/7/3
Jesulin 2/3/1/1
Spanky 3/40/310/38
Ihitto 4/26/128/28
Holyhammer 5/9/13/15
Luvnest 6/7/2/9
Geimfari 7/22/29/203
Fancy 8/5/3/7
Giap 9/10/11/6

I could continue. 90% of the people on top100 have at least 1 more faction ,if not all, on top100.

#facts #GGWP

@Rocket.
First paragraph.
While i may agree up to some point on the general idea i'm gonna correct some missconceptions. Indirect fire and tank shells doesn't get affected* (*negligible) by their veterancy.
Finally: if you are gonna play as USF at 3v3+, better you be the only USF player or you are really gonna have a bad time. USF is design to be a heavy ability micro faction on the late game.

Then continue, because there are only more or less 10 ppl in your list and we are talking about potentially 800 ppl. Facts.

Forward retreat points for both the OKW and the USF have made the game far more static and boring.

/bad design

Forward retreat points for both the OKW and the USF have made the game far more static and boring.

/bad design

That.

It also made maps 'indirectly smaller' as bringing troops back to the field takes much less time.

And doctrine with forward retreat point eventually will come for wehr as well, which is sad.

I just discovered that obersoldaten in red cover win vs paratroopers in green cover. Obers are perfectly balanced and working as intended

However the USF faction also has many broken things, but that's another topic.

destroying a schwerer HQ requires a coordinated and patient attack. you cant just rush into it with mediums and hope to kill it. be intentional with what youre going to do.
wether it be sniping it with jacksons, barraging it with 120mm mortars, attacking out of range with at guns while machine guns push off any counter attack, or swarming it with multiple medium tanks, you have to be intentional in destroying it.
the cheapest way to do it is using two 120mm mortars, using at guns + machine guns/infantry is also effective, and the fastest way is probably attacking with mass armor, but also the riskiest since you could possibly lose a tank if there are supporting anti-tank next to the schwerer.

one instance, i had a 2v2 with a mate of mine on rails and metal. i was USF and my mate sov. the okw/ost team was on the northeast side (fixed position back then) and they clearly knew what they were doing. they set up medic truck behind a big house near north fuel as soon as possible and got sturm officer as soon as possible. ost got two mortars. of course in addition to volks, grens etc. the map was cut in half, and we couldn't push the medic hq because sturm officer with two mort literally sniped my mate's two sniper teams in matter of seconds.

so we held back, and contained them when they try to push out from their little hole. i mean we should really get more than half of the map, but crazy sturm buff and medic truck meant no early game combination of allies unit could penetrate it. so mid game comes, i got an AA halftrack and more units, and soviet guy got more units and we get ready for a big flank from our fuel point on the south to their little hq at the other fuel point. i try to get a huge flank in and get in between their forward hq and their base and what do i see?

a flak base just far enough back, but forward enough to prevent any rear flanking of their forward hq.

it halted our advances and we had to wait for the late game because if we tried to go for the flak hq, we would be flanked.

and we got scotts, jacksons, su85s, katushas and we outplayed them (they made many mistakes) and won the game. the cheesest and most boring game ever.

**now, i agree with you that it is counterable etc etc, but the whole okw forward bases lead to such a stallfest and excruciating patience game which is so not fun to play against. i think it is a bad design.

and on another point, i played a lot of OKWs, and you don't need obers and panthers imo, im not a pro. i literally never used obers and shreck volks, sturmpio, pumas, jagdpanzer do just fine.

I think we need to balance OKW with the rest of the armies during late game. Balance, I mean infantry engagements. I am staunch supporter of Obers paying for their LMG upgrades (Like every single unit). Second, OKW needs a tone down on long range shrek accuracy and vet 5 bonus that it receives. I also agree with a comment mentioned here, Vet 3 Rifiles (or any other vet3 infantry) should be able to handle Vet 5 volks. I have to risk Shermans, T-34 crush and Scots to take out infantry every single time is ridiculous.

Then continue, because there are only more or less 10 ppl in your list and we are talking about potentially 800 ppl. Facts.

Cruzz 14/8/12/3
Siberian 19/23/58/26
KoreanArmy 24/52/29/34
VindicareX 26/6/7/14
HelpingHans 27//24/30/23
-HOI-VIPUKS 37/18/76/40
BartonPL 44/41/22/63
Symbiosis 51/21/51/55
Ginnungagap 58/34/121/146
Anavar 68/115/106/1446
StephennJF 85/123/42/71
Lenny 87/266/101/159
E-zy 93/37/33/46
NoobIX 100/198/199/136

There you have an expectrum from 10-100. I'm gonna help you since it seems a bit hard for you.
http://www.coh2.org/ladders/index/3/1/0

I am staunch supporter of Obers paying for their LMG upgrades (Like every single unit).

And you are still gonna have silly Obers with insane DPS. Lategame infantry DPS is a bit over the top, this includes 1919 (and Paras who can shoot on the move but not as accurately as Obers) and LMG34s. Making them buy an OP weapon won't solve anything. As it has being discussed before, you need to spread out the LMG34 DPS on 2 weapons and make everysingle LMG being able to only shot when standing still. Thompsons and STG are the alternative for dps on the move.

Cruzz 14/8/12/3
Siberian 19/23/58/26
KoreanArmy 24/52/29/34
VindicareX 26/6/7/14
HelpingHans 27//24/30/23
-HOI-VIPUKS 37/18/76/40
BartonPL 44/41/22/63
Symbiosis 51/21/51/55
Ginnungagap 58/34/121/146
Anavar 68/115/106/1446
StephennJF 85/123/42/71
Lenny 87/266/101/159
E-zy 93/37/33/46
NoobIX 100/198/199/136

There you have an expectrum from 10-100. I'm gonna help you since it seems a bit hard for you.
http://www.coh2.org/ladders/index/3/1/0



And you are still gonna have silly Obers with insane DPS. Lategame infantry DPS is a bit over the top, this includes 1919 (and Paras who can shoot on the move but not as accurately as Obers) and LMG34s. Making them buy an OP weapon won't solve anything. As it has being discussed before, you need to spread out the LMG34 DPS on 2 weapons and make everysingle LMG being able to only shot when standing still. Thompsons and STG are the alternative for dps on the move.

Or just tone down the LMG34 to be closer to the LMG42.




Or maybe change the LMG to have flat dps all the way. My main problem is how they eat up everything at long range and that sick received accuracy modifier.

My main problem is how they eat up everything at long range and that sick received accuracy modifier.

Its disgusting really

We should stop looking at rankings and W/L ratios of players and think about the avg player. A person of equal skill on allies vs an OKW player will loose, simple as that.

The USF rifles quickly get out vetted and useless, they also are very fragile and lack the DPS to stand up against OKW Volks and obers. That being said, their tanks can counter the infantry but since the shrek is so good, it negates any of the armor usf can put out. The Scott dies in 2 shrek hits, the sherm in 4, and on avg 5-6 for the ez8.

I can understand if u want to make the FlakHQ good, but at least decrease its health to be able to counter it with an AT gun if the OKW player puts it to far forward.

Either all of the allies/wehr need to be buffed to OKW standards or you need to adjust the OKW. choose one

We should stop looking at rankings and W/L ratios of players and think about the avg player.

That's like saying we should change Football rules and field size based on high school level play. No.

The Scott dies in 2 shrek hits, the sherm in 4, and on avg 5-6 for the ez8

If Scott is in range of shreks you are doing something vastly wrong.

Also, it takes an average of 6 hits from shrek to kill a T-34.

EZ8s can bounce shreks and raketens and will certainly take more shots than a T-34.

Please don't make unsupported claims :/

We had plently of balance issues before wfa.
I think relic's refusal to never change designs of units is the root of all problems.
2 men snipers, soviet tech structure etc
Luckily they did change 100 range vehicles and lets hope the call in change gets through soon

If Scott is in range of shreks you are doing something vastly wrong.

True.

EZ8s can bounce shreks and raketens and will certainly take more shots than a T-34.

Quite unlikely with the Rak43.

Raketenwerfer 43 penetration 200/190/180

E8 armour = 215