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OKW, the root of most balance issues?

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4 Dec 2014, 16:25 PM
#101
avatar of Hitman5

Posts: 467



I think we have different understandig what nerf is. For me its making unit less powerful. Here You can call nerf only 1 thing. Volks without schrecks (yet still you have something for exchange so its hardly nerf). I would rather say its a buff since you still have at inf and ai cheap inf. But if you are schrecks blob lover, then yes, its a nerf.
Other things are about changing design rather than nerfing.


They are nerfs because they weaken the faction and the units.

If Riflemen came with sticks instead of rifles, but could still upgrade to rifles for 60 munitions, would you not consider that a nerf?
4 Dec 2014, 16:33 PM
#102
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2



They are nerfs because they weaken the faction and the units.

If Riflemen came with sticks instead of rifles, but could still upgrade to rifles for 60 munitions, would you not consider that a nerf?


Usefull Medium tank instead of very late-game and very rare tank is nerf to faction? Well, I see a lot of complaints about lack of medium tank.
You still have schrecks but on different unit and Volks would get AI upgrade + Panzerfaust.
Where the hell you see those nerfs?!


If Rifles come with sticks and I could pay 60 muni for LMG, why not?
But Obers dont come with sticks and 1 LMG, right? So this is very stupid statement from You.

Guards, Grens, Paras, Rifles. Everyone has to upgrade LMGs but not Obers. Why?
4 Dec 2014, 16:58 PM
#103
avatar of Specialka

Posts: 144



what are you talking about


I am just using you logic to the fullest.
4 Dec 2014, 17:01 PM
#104
avatar of QueenRatchet123

Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2

Permanently Banned
my thoughts

flak hq needs pen nerf against med tanks

obers need nurf or 90muni for lmg

stuka need nerf

Many people are forgetting that with allies (USF in particular) you can pick ur fights. smoke is ur most powerfull friend. if ur gonna flank? pop smoke on an area that u don't want to fight. and u can deploy smoke on top of any target. blinding them. I don't see many using smoke, even at high levels.

deploy smoke and u will win many games

smoke is the perfect counter to q campy axis player. it will force them to move their units. and possibly over extend. usf is a gorilla tactics army. attack where ur enemy is weak. smoke allows u to do this.
4 Dec 2014, 17:02 PM
#105
avatar of Rupert

Posts: 186



I am just using you logic to the fullest.


lol...:loco:
4 Dec 2014, 17:03 PM
#106
avatar of LemonJuice

Posts: 1144 | Subs: 7



I am just using you logic to the fullest.


lmfao, seriously?i was responding to people complaining that the game needs to cater to their skill level. while this is true to some extent, if you want a game to be competitive the player needs to step up to the plate and improve themselves to match the challenge.
4 Dec 2014, 17:47 PM
#107
avatar of Romeo
Honorary Member Badge
Benefactor 115

Posts: 1970 | Subs: 5

usf is a gorilla tactics army


GORILLA TACTICS! :D
4 Dec 2014, 17:51 PM
#108
avatar of LemonJuice

Posts: 1144 | Subs: 7

also nerfs and buffs can be pretty subjective at times. like theres clear nerfs, where a dps is lowered or something, but then also like role changes and things can also be considered nerfs as well. for example i think the JLI change a few patches ago was a nerf but others might not think so, etc etc.
4 Dec 2014, 17:52 PM
#109
avatar of Romeo
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Benefactor 115

Posts: 1970 | Subs: 5

Well anyone who doesn't think so is wrong :P
4 Dec 2014, 18:02 PM
#110
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

Don't bother answering, they lower you to their level and they beat you with experience. Unless you are bored :P

@AustralianMagic everything you propose is never gonna happen. Be realistic. And you don't realize that even if Obers had to buy their LMG, it would still be broken.
4 Dec 2014, 18:11 PM
#111
avatar of Specialka

Posts: 144



lmfao, seriously?i was responding to people complaining that the game needs to cater to their skill level. while this is true to some extent, if you want a game to be competitive the player needs to step up to the plate and improve themselves to match the challenge.


And what happens when one faction is easier to play than other? Are OKW top players equally skill to USF top players?
4 Dec 2014, 18:35 PM
#112
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2



And what happens when one faction is easier to play than other? Are OKW top players equally skill to USF top players?


Little secret: they are the same players.
4 Dec 2014, 18:42 PM
#113
avatar of IpKaiFung
Benefactor 115

Posts: 1708 | Subs: 2



Little secret: they are the same players.


4 Dec 2014, 19:18 PM
#114
avatar of Specialka

Posts: 144



Little secret: they are the same players.


Since I play mostly/only USF, I disagree.
4 Dec 2014, 19:20 PM
#115
avatar of Romeo
Honorary Member Badge
Benefactor 115

Posts: 1970 | Subs: 5

Are you a top player? :P
4 Dec 2014, 19:54 PM
#116
avatar of AvNY

Posts: 862



Little secret: they are the same players.



Can't be.... Look at Romeo's scorecard. Clearly it shows that USF are OP.
4 Dec 2014, 20:00 PM
#117
avatar of OZtheWiZARD

Posts: 1439



destroying a schwerer HQ requires a coordinated and patient attack. you cant just rush into it with mediums and hope to kill it. be intentional with what youre going to do.
wether it be sniping it with jacksons, barraging it with 120mm mortars, attacking out of range with at guns while machine guns push off any counter attack, or swarming it with multiple medium tanks, you have to be intentional in destroying it.
the cheapest way to do it is using two 120mm mortars, using at guns + machine guns/infantry is also effective, and the fastest way is probably attacking with mass armor, but also the riskiest since you could possibly lose a tank if there are supporting anti-tank next to the schwerer.



I'm not saying I have troubles to deal with OKW flacktruck.
I'm saying that it's a bit too easy for OKW player to dig in and defense a vital point with it. Forward placement should be more risky.
4 Dec 2014, 20:04 PM
#118
avatar of LemonJuice

Posts: 1144 | Subs: 7




I'm not saying I have troubles to deal with OKW flacktruck.
I'm saying that it's a bit too easy for OKW player to dig in and defense a vital point with it. Forward placement should be more risky.


it is risky. you risk losing your late game unit production structure. obers and panthers are the backbone of the OKW late game, and losing the ability to produce those is a huge blow.
4 Dec 2014, 20:08 PM
#119
avatar of Romeo
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Benefactor 115

Posts: 1970 | Subs: 5

I agree with lemon again. If you lose your Schwerer HQ before your panther comes out you will probably lose the game. Just because it's "easy" doesn't mean it isn't risky.

I do think the gun is too strong though. It shouldn't target aircraft and it shouldn't be so good against tanks. Alternatively it should be an optional munitions upgrade. It also needs its range indicator fixed.
4 Dec 2014, 20:25 PM
#120
avatar of Volsky

Posts: 344

Go out and DL the 'Art of Defence' mod and maps. Go play AOD Langreskaya. Try it out as the Soviets/Americans, and then try it out as the Axis.

Note how much easier it is to play as the Axis.

Even abusing the 'All Commanders Mod' to get Not One Step Back Tactics (Commissars w. an additive 1.15 accuracy bonus per Commissar and +50 MP/minute) and, say, Lend Lease tactics w. a metric butt ton of buffed DShKs and Shocks backed up by M4A3(76)Ws, you get steamrolled. Legions of Cons and ZiS guns? Na.

As the Axis you can squeeze by with a pair of MG42s, some Flammenpios, a sniper, and 4-6 PaKs. As the OKW, you can VolkShreck your way to victory.

Is this a super clear indicator of balance? I guess not. But the fact that you can basically fap, eat, and win this map/mode as the Axis while you need to be hyped up on speed and a few Red Bulls to do anything as the Allied factions should be a little telling.
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