Highfive's guide on how to suggest changes

Hello comrades and Kameraden,

after reading a lot of the same stuff in this boards lately I thought it would help the board and the people to create some kind of "guide" that helps to decide whether you should create a topic or post a reply about something you want to change or not.

First of all I've been playing CoH2 since the early Alpha and vCoH since 2006 so I hope I can say that I feel free to evaluate the things that players suggest in terms of how Relic would handle them.

Let's start!




Does it make sense to ask for...

New units in the standard tiers?

Sad thing at the start but to be honest these things mostly won't happen at all. Many players in this forums suggest adding new tanks and units into the faction's base buildings which would be a big change in the meta gameplay. Because if this reason it is very, VERY unlikely to happen.
What many players don't understand is the fact that having tank XYZ in the game might be cool but the gameplay value would be very low most of the time. You have to understand the asymetrical balance of Company of Heroes. Yes, the Ostheer does not have a light tanks such as the Luchs or the M8/T70 but this is desired. Look at the Blitzkrieg mod vor vCoH. Sure, it is cool as hell but 90% of the units serve no purpose or share their purpose with 5 other units.

Balance > Variety!

New units at all?

Sure! CoH2 has a very unique commander system which makes it possible to add new units and hence new strategies with new commanders. But be sure to think about the purpose of a new unit as stated in the last chapter. What would be the use of the new unit? Is there another unit doing (almost) the same thing? If so it wouldn't be a good idea. Bad examples are already in the game: The M10 Wolverine for example is a bad M36 Jackson that is a bit cheaper but a lot weaker. Because of this reason almost nobody plays the M10. (Of course there are many little other reasons not to play the M10, mostly Meta things but let's stay above the surface).

Controllable airplanes and/or ships?

Hell no! CoH2 is a land based RTS and no Age Of Empires. Yet I have seen many threads demanding ships and airplanes as units. This would simply push the boundaries way too much. There are other games that will fit much better.

A change in the war spoil system?

Yes and no. Changing the current drop system is a concern by many players at the moment. Relic knows that and they are most likely doing something about it. BUTTTT they also know that players will never be pleased. First you had to buy commanders now you get them for free via drops and still nobody is content. Just be a bit patient and talk about it from time to time. Still no reason to create three new threads everyday.

Changes in the tier system?

Though this happened in the Alpha and Beta before I am pretty sure that this will never happen for the four current factions again. These changes would include moving units to other tiers (for example Su76 to T3, etc) and had a big impact in the meta and the balance too. A single unit that can be combined with other units as before could destroy the balance. IMO Relic is afraid of changes because they don't want to lose the players and such drastical changes are even worse.

Changes in the call-in system?

Yes. In contrast to moving units between different tiers, binding call-ins to tiers would not affect the balance that much. It would only slow down the current system of waiting for the heavy call ins. It has been like this in the Alpha but was put out again (Call-ins also had to be produced in the buildings back then). Cruzz' Kappatch includes this feature too and it works very well.

Replacing names of units?

I know the community is very active about discussing new names for Obersoldaten but I honestly don't think this will do anything. Changing something that has been there for several months would cause confusion. Yes you are in a CoH2 forum and you know every unit but there are also some players that are not as dedicated to this game as you are. And they would think "Oh? Were have my Obersoldaten gone? Why do I have a new unit?". Sounds weird but that's the truth.

Replace units?

Won't probably happen as well. Tales of Valor had this feature and everybody hated it except for the guys with the 10 Roos and Zappers. Not a single unit was ever replaced after a CoH game came out.

New weapons for units?

This is also a point that would affect balancing way too much. Remember the time Relic took to add a single new model to the German weapon teams? Now imagine them adding a new weapon. They wouldn't be able to sleep a month before patch day. No, but honestly new weapons will only appear with new commanders. Surely it would be cool if Conscript had other weapons with an upgrade from scratch but that's simply not the case and will never be. The only plausible case would be adding the need to purchase the MG34 for the Obersoldaten for ammunition. But that wouldn't be a new weapon either.



Maybe i'll add some other points later.
Let me know what you think about it and maybe let it influence you when writing future posts.

Much love
Highfive

I like this a lot . Thanks

Please add as appropriate, if you have time

I think if such a monster like Blizzard wanna change some original units so it is not shameful at all to follow by their example.
Im not gonna persuade you it's a FACT

ITT crushing the last bits of hope any of us still had

But yeah Relic is extremely stubborn and they'll make Volk Panzerschrecks perform at PTRS level before they admit they made a mistake in the design. No hope for a balanced OKW I guess.

Of course there's nothing wrong with proposing any change you can possibly think of, this guide is just explaining what is likely to actually happen as a result.

this guide is just explaining what is likely to actually happen as a result.

That is the reason why I wrote it. I don't want to crush anyone's dreams.
I just want to get rid of the 20 nerf Obersoldaten threads and the 70 buff conscripts threads.
One thread for each topic is enough.

I would like to think that we do have some fake diversity in this game with the few units that Relic wont make useful and takes up space.

Like the SU-76, what is that even for...

I just want to get rid of the 20 nerf Obersoldaten threads and the 70 buff conscripts threads.
One thread for each topic is enough.

Is this where we put in the "guide to how to limit balance-change threads" thread?

Because I will right now predict (and I expect the prediction is 100% accurate) that nothing you write will limit the continued creation of new threads proving imbalances, requesting new balances, suggesting ways to balance, etc.

People will always fantasize, argue, pontificate, and play "what if.."s.

I would like to think that we do have some fake diversity in this game with the few units that Relic wont make useful and takes up space.

Like the SU-76, what is that even for...

It was ment as light at and ai vehicle that you can use before going for su-85 and katy while going t4. And it even served that role in the early stages of the game. I remember winning matches in 1v1 by building 2-3 su-76 before ostheer could get any tanks becaoude of map control that gave you. Still it needed some serious skills to use, but relic decided it is op and nerfed both su-76 and its tier by increasing fuel cost. From that patch nobody uses it as it shows up too late to be usefull couse it is hard countered by p4.

To sum up: it is a great unit, and it's well placed in t4 but it needs cost reduction to about 60-65 fuel to make sense.

Is this where we put in the "guide to how to limit balance-change threads" thread?

Because I will right now predict (and I expect the prediction is 100% accurate) that nothing you write will limit the continued creation of new threads proving imbalances, requesting new balances, suggesting ways to balance, etc.

People will always fantasize, argue, pontificate, and play "what if.."s.

They will - and it is up to staff to try to actively stem the Balance Section from becoming 'a latrine' (sic). So if you see a Balance thread locked, please do not be surprised ( I am sure you will not). In fairness, sometimes the site is confusing for new members e.g. the line between Lobby and Scrap Yard has yet to be properly defined (IMO)

Mature posters such as yourself can help, however: you will know that it used to be de rigueur on GR.org, that a poster complaining about a certain problem e.g. blobbing - had to be challenged early to produce a replay. If you could all keep doing that, it will cut down on a lot of theorycraft (IMO)

tl:dr Staff cannot be everywhere all the time, and you have a Report button

Replace units?

Won't probably happen as well. Tales of Valor had this feature and everybody hated it except for the guys with the 10 Roos and Zappers. Not a single unit was ever replaced after a CoH game came out.

Uhm besides the Roos/Faghounds, other units like Swchimm, G-wagon and Hotchkiss are actually interesting ones and not overly broken.