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Canister shot

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GustavGans
4 Dec 2014, 21:05 PM
#81
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jump backJump back to quoted post4 Dec 2014, 20:38 PMDakkaIsMagic
I could say the same about the Walking stuka and the Sturmtiger.


I know I shouldn't feed the troll but maybe he really doesn't get it.

Stuka; expensive, midgame, doesnt track units, howling sound when firing, can be dodged with average effort if you're not asleep in front of your PC.

Sturmtiger; expensive, lategame, takes forever to reload, slow, doesn't track, can easily be avoided once you see the ST raising it's barrel.

Greyhound; Cheap, fast, no teching required, reliably oneshots squads for 50muni, tracks target unit (even on retreat), comes late early game/early midgame.

Spot the difference yourself or l2p.

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Rocket
4 Dec 2014, 22:28 PM
#82
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It is just fine you are not considering that EVERYTHING else with that doc fn sucks. It is an early game doc meant to do that in the long run your probably gonna win regardless of the squad wipes I mean it takes two friggen shrek hits to kill it. The pathfinders suck in that doc and the paratroopers come WAAAAY too late everyone has vetted upgraded inf by then there just worthless.

Also you can't easily dodge a stukka it is a gamble they can guess wich way your going to try to dodge and still get you, you can even retreat and they still get you by predicting it which on a lot of maps is really easy to do like say ettlebrook.
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Romeo
4 Dec 2014, 22:30 PM
#83
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something sucking does not justify something else being OP.












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Rocket
4 Dec 2014, 22:46 PM
#84
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jump backJump back to quoted post4 Dec 2014, 22:30 PMRomeo
something sucking does not justify something else being OP.
'

If this doctrine did not have the greyhound it would be totatly useless and no one would use it. Saying that I think the unit is fine considering what there losing by choosing to go this route. It is also just an opinion that it is op to begin with just saying respectfully.
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Romeo
4 Dec 2014, 22:49 PM
#85
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Then the rest of the doctrine should be fixed along with well-deserved nerfs to canister round.
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Rocket
4 Dec 2014, 22:50 PM
#86
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I would agree with that.
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braciszek
4 Dec 2014, 22:55 PM
#87
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The super paratrooper drop to me seems like an inefficient variation of Airborne's paratroopers. For... What is it again, 900 mp? Which calls in two paratroopers with random munitions costing weapons (mostly good) and an unmanned AT gun... The ability would certainly be used more if an AT gun didnt make it cost way more than an ability should cost (as in, an AT gun kind of doesnt need to be included). Other than the greyhound (which is only good for nuke cannister), everything else is extremely... Meh. Why choose it over any of the other 5 commanders? Im certainly for a revision of the commander.
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Katitof
4 Dec 2014, 23:00 PM
#88
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jump backJump back to quoted post4 Dec 2014, 22:49 PMRomeo
Then the rest of the doctrine should be fixed along with well-deserved nerfs to canister round.


Its a doctrine with 2 kinds of reckon abilities and reckon, combat ineffective troops which at least have somewhat effective abilities.

As a cherry on top, you get ultra menpower heavy call-in with unreliable weapons on a faction that is extremely menpower heavy and punishes you for using it by forcing you to spend additional 80-120mp on AT gun or donate it to enemy.

I can't really think of a possible way to save the doctrine when M8 would be nerfed.

Just like dodge truck IS a mechanized doctrine, the same way M8 is a reckon doctrine. Everything outside of that single ability is a bad quality filler.

Basically, if not for M8, I would say that sierra together with lolcake designed the doctrine.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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Sarantini
4 Dec 2014, 23:21 PM
#89
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i reckon its recon
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Katitof
4 Dec 2014, 23:25 PM
#90
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jump backJump back to quoted post4 Dec 2014, 23:21 PMSarantini
i reckon its recon


jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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Strummingbird
4 Dec 2014, 23:54 PM
#91
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jump backJump back to quoted post4 Dec 2014, 20:38 PMDakkaIsMagic
I could say the same about the Walking stuka and the Sturmtiger.


1. Using what you assume are broken units to justify broken units is no justification at all
2. Comparing the Sturmtiger to the Greyhound is just... :facepalm: Even the Stuka, debatable though its performance may be, has the cost to match its strength.

I'm quite sure you have watched neither replay. If your time is really so precious, just watch the second game, it's only 10 minutes long. Arguing for the sake of arguing, or just because you love a particular faction, is pretty damn stupid.

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Dec 2014, 23:00 PMKatitof

I can't really think of a possible way to save the doctrine when M8 would be nerfed.

Just like dodge truck IS a mechanized doctrine, the same way M8 is a reckon doctrine. Everything outside of that single ability is a bad quality filler.


1. IR Pathfinders are superb
2. do away with the current implementation of canister, make the greyhound useful in direct combat or make the shotgun shell useful in a way other than instawiping squads, and there you have it. The last two abilities of the doctrine are pretty subpar right now- i'd say the single pass recon run and the paratroopers could do with a cost drop. But that's just a relatively easy adjustment. The doctrine would definitely not be unsalvageable.
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elchino7
5 Dec 2014, 00:09 AM
#92
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jump backJump back to quoted post4 Dec 2014, 23:00 PMKatitof

snip


How to save a doctrine for dummies 101:
Chapter 1: Recon support company

-Reduce popcap on pathfinders, make them 2 man and give them rifles with sniper crit and extra range.
-Greyhound: buff cannon, nerf canister. Mindblown.
-Recon sweep: make it sweep at a slower speed so it stays a bit more.
-Airdropped Combat Group: 6CP. Remove AT gun and make it drop for 720mp 2 Airbone squad with random equipment.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.

Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.

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Hitman5
5 Dec 2014, 00:35 AM
#93
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jump backJump back to quoted post5 Dec 2014, 00:09 AMelchino7


How to save a doctrine for dummies 101:
Chapter 1: Recon support company

-Reduce popcap on pathfinders, make them 2 man and give them rifles with sniper crit and extra range.
-Greyhound: buff cannon, nerf canister. Mindblown.
-Recon sweep: make it sweep at a slower speed so it stays a bit more.
-Airdropped Combat Group: 6CP. Remove AT gun and make it drop for 720mp 2 Airbone squad with random equipment.


Must... Keep.. The... OP!!!!
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DakkaIsMagic
5 Dec 2014, 00:46 AM
#94
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Posts: 403

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Dec 2014, 21:05 PMGustavGans


Stuka; expensive, midgame, doesnt track units, howling sound when firing, can be dodged with average effort if you're not asleep in front of your PC.



So being expensive and coming out mid-game is a ok reason for it pretty much instant killing most inf units, even in a defensive posture?

Seeing I&R pathfinders is not a sign that you should get some AT ready for the grayhound?

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Dec 2014, 21:05 PMGustavGans



Sturmtiger; expensive, lategame, takes forever to reload, slow, doesn't track, can easily be avoided once you see the ST raising it's barrel.


So being expensive and coming out late-game is a ok reason for it pretty much instant killing most inf units (even if its one squad at a time), can fire threw walls/anything in the world, even in a defensive posture?

Seeing I&R pathfinders is not a sign that you should get some AT ready for the grayhound?

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Dec 2014, 21:05 PMGustavGans


Greyhound; Cheap, fast, no teching required, reliably oneshots squads for 50muni, tracks target unit (even on retreat), comes late early game/early midgame.


Because 50mui is cheap.



Spot the difference yourself or l2p.
Major Conscript user.
Sometimes NKVD Commander.

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Cruzz
5 Dec 2014, 00:52 AM
#95
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jump backJump back to quoted post5 Dec 2014, 00:46 AMDakkaIsMagic

Seeing I&R pathfinders is not a sign that you should get some AT ready for the grayhound?


1. Nobody remotely smart is gonna get the pathfinders before greyhound exactly because there's no point in showing your hand before you play it.

2. A single PaK is just not gonna manage it without a faust, and you can't really faust because canister goes off faster.
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DakkaIsMagic
5 Dec 2014, 00:55 AM
#96
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Posts: 403

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Dec 2014, 00:52 AMCruzz


1. Nobody remotely smart is gonna get the pathfinders before greyhound exactly because there's no point in showing your hand before you play it.



So... anyone going recon is not going to use the I&R pathfinders to tip the next few engagements in there favor?
Major Conscript user.
Sometimes NKVD Commander.

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braciszek
5 Dec 2014, 01:31 AM
#97
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jump backJump back to quoted post5 Dec 2014, 00:55 AMDakkaIsMagic


So... anyone going recon is not going to use the I&R pathfinders to tip the next few engagements in there favor?


Well... Who uses I&R pathfinders anyways? And USF isnt going to spend its early munitions on its abilities, anyways... :/
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Strummingbird
5 Dec 2014, 01:38 AM
#98
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jump backJump back to quoted post5 Dec 2014, 01:31 AMbraciszek

Well... Who uses I&R pathfinders anyways? And USF isnt going to spend its early munitions on its abilities, anyways... :/


I actually really like using the IR Pathfinders early (despite what Cruzzi says :p). Think I did so in the first replay too, though I wouldn't use it against solid grenspam or OKW w/o MG34s or forward medic truck. getting squadwipes on MGs early is nice, and catching a Pak is worth every penny.
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DakkaIsMagic
5 Dec 2014, 01:54 AM
#99
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jump backJump back to quoted post5 Dec 2014, 01:38 AMStrummingbird


I actually really like using the IR Pathfinders early (despite what Cruzzi says :p). Think I did so in the first replay too, though I wouldn't use it against solid grenspam or OKW w/o MG34s or forward medic truck. getting squadwipes on MGs early is nice, and catching a Pak is worth every penny.


That we can agree on, and extra firepower in a engagement is always a welcome.

To others, they are worth there weight in combat than just useing there arty call-in.
Major Conscript user.
Sometimes NKVD Commander.

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Strummingbird
5 Dec 2014, 02:01 AM
#100
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jump backJump back to quoted post5 Dec 2014, 01:54 AMDakkaIsMagic


That we can agree on, and extra firepower in a engagement is always a welcome.

To others, they are worth there weight in combat than just useing there arty call-in.


My bad, I didn't elaborate- i don't buy them or use them for combat because they're just terrible at it :P I get them for arty and capping/beacons.
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