Not sure what happened to the last thread about this ability, so here goes.
There's really nothing much to say here- it's just ridiculous. You roll up to a squad and oneshot. If he retreats, you overtake and oneshot.
There's absolutely nothing you can do at 3CP as ostheer on so many maps- at that point you already need every drop of manpower and munition for healing, flamers, and LMGs because of the USF infantry advantage, so multiple tellers are not an option. Neither are they reliable, REs are cheap and there's no reason not to get sweepers on them early. The pak simply isn't maneuverable enough to deal with it. To add insult to injury the greyhound can oneshot paks and full shreck squads too, which is a complete game ender. 40 fuel be damned, it's worth a hell of a lot more just for the constant squadwipes.
Even if you don't have the munitions to do it, just driving up to a squad is enough to force a retreat, which is very valuable in itself when the ostheer already struggles so hard with the early game.
Canister shot
30 Nov 2014, 11:03 AM
#1
Posts: 952 | Subs: 1
30 Nov 2014, 11:10 AM
#2
4 
Posts: 4301 | Subs: 2
yeah, it is the ultimate cheese. i agree.
just make m8 more useful, like 40 damage for slow firing cannon is ridiculous. and remove canister or make it a shock canister shot
just make m8 more useful, like 40 damage for slow firing cannon is ridiculous. and remove canister or make it a shock canister shot
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30 Nov 2014, 11:12 AM
#3
Posts: 2807 | Subs: 6
#esports 
30 Nov 2014, 11:49 AM
#4
9 
Posts: 1094 | Subs: 20
+ 1 from my side.
It's just such a no brainer vehicle.
It's just such a no brainer vehicle.
30 Nov 2014, 11:53 AM
#5
Posts: 1617
+1
Just broken. I once faced a guy who spammed M8s vs my Wehr, the rape was real...
Just broken. I once faced a guy who spammed M8s vs my Wehr, the rape was real...
30 Nov 2014, 12:09 PM
#6
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
Counter with 222.
30 Nov 2014, 12:16 PM
#7
Posts: 476
The rest of the commander and Greyhound is crap. So buff greyhound main cannon to match Stuart (like in Kappatch), give smoke pots and nerf canister shot and reduce munitions cost. Paratrooper group shouldt be so RNG, let us choose weapons!
30 Nov 2014, 12:35 PM
#8
Posts: 952 | Subs: 1
Counter with 222.
1. In the same manner that T70 cannot stop the Luchs from killing squads on retreat, the 222 can't kill the M8 in any reasonable timeframe. The M8 doesn't even need to chase squads to kill on retreat, it's just wipe and run. it doesn't need to expose itself to antitank for any longer than the second it takes for the canister to go off, then it disappears into the fog and appears at the other end of the map to kill the capping squad there. Nothing can be done with the 222 to prevent that apart from guessing where the greyhound will appear and waiting, in which case the greyhound leaves to no loss of the USF player.
2. Skirted Greyhound beats 222 at most ranges:
3. 222 costs 510MP 55MUNI 15F to get out. the M8 costs 280MP 40F. More importantly, you cannot afford to spend the manpower and munitions at that stage of the game whereas the USF can.
4. It's a oneshot ability that takes no anticipation, forward thinking, or (i'd say) skill whatsoever, as moronic as the old precision nuke on mortars, demo charges, squadwipe mines, or stuka. Even if it were countered by the 222 (which in practice it is not), it's conceptually silly from the outset.
30 Nov 2014, 12:42 PM
#9
Posts: 1439
It is on a ridiculously good side. For sure.
30 Nov 2014, 12:46 PM
#10
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
You don't need to kill unit to counter it. Keep 222 near your troops and greyhound wont do anything.
And it's wierd what you are saying... 222 can easily kill greyhound...
And don't count tech costs since no matter if you want 222 or not, you will tech up.
And it's wierd what you are saying... 222 can easily kill greyhound...
And don't count tech costs since no matter if you want 222 or not, you will tech up.
30 Nov 2014, 12:56 PM
#11
2 Posts: 1108
+1
too many squad wipes with the canister shot
too many squad wipes with the canister shot
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30 Nov 2014, 13:00 PM
#12
Posts: 952 | Subs: 1
Points made
1. You need to cap.
2. Point taken, seems like 222 vs greyhound is pretty RNG. Regardless, the greyhound is not going to die to the 222 unless you screw up and get hit by a faust.
3. in the long run tech costs even out, but in the early game you cannot afford to spend MP that isn't going straight into fighting... it's hard to explain. the easiest way to understand the ostheer vs USF dynamic currently is to hop into 1v1 and see what exactly I mean by the manpower situation.
30 Nov 2014, 16:40 PM
#13
Posts: 612
1. You need to cap.
2. Point taken, seems like 222 vs greyhound is pretty RNG. Regardless, the greyhound is not going to die to the 222 unless you screw up and get hit by a faust.
3. in the long run tech costs even out, but in the early game you cannot afford to spend MP that isn't going straight into fighting... it's hard to explain. the easiest way to understand the ostheer vs USF dynamic currently is to hop into 1v1 and see what exactly I mean by the manpower situation.
Well considering the 222 has to get close for a canister shot I'd say gray hounds commonly get killed by a faust and finished off by a 222. I've seen it happen many times in our team games. Even in a 1v1 you'll have a couple of grens and the defensive nature of Ostheer in 1v1 means most of your stuff will be within easy supporting range to faust and finish off with the 222
30 Nov 2014, 16:51 PM
#14
Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1
The M8 is good for roaming the flank, kill capping squad and waiting for good opportunities to shot and run.
When I'm using it, I don't even bother to upskirt it, if you can wipe his 1st Lmg squad, it is already paid same if you lose it afterward.
I guess, it makes feel Ostheer players what their rifle nade / P4 / Ostwind does to your squads.
When I'm using it, I don't even bother to upskirt it, if you can wipe his 1st Lmg squad, it is already paid same if you lose it afterward.
I guess, it makes feel Ostheer players what their rifle nade / P4 / Ostwind does to your squads.
30 Nov 2014, 16:52 PM
#15
Posts: 70
+1
Just broken. I once faced a guy who spammed M8s vs my Wehr, the rape was real...
Why would anyone do that? The vehicle itself is rubbish and the ability is too munitions heavy to spam on multiple M8s.
30 Nov 2014, 16:57 PM
#16
Posts: 1820 | Subs: 2
Canister shot is frustrating...
30 Nov 2014, 16:59 PM
#17
Posts: 589
For me, cannister shot screams anti blobbing tool. At the moment, the ability is so cheap, it's well worth using against single squads, when you're pretty much guaranteed a wipe.
To fix it, I think it should be super effective, however, it also should be super expensive.
I suggest raising the cost of the ability, so that using it versus single squads is pretty inefficient, yet very efficient against blobs. This will however make the vehicle pretty redundant, so raising its normal damage, so it's more consistent with vehicles around the 40FU mark should be considered.
What do you guys think would be a fair ammo cost, if it is changed like I describe?
I've heard people suggesting keeping it the same cost, but putting a delay on the shot. I'm against this suggestion though, as a blob (which I believe cannister is supposed to counter) will likely take out the vehicle before it gets its shot off.
To fix it, I think it should be super effective, however, it also should be super expensive.
I suggest raising the cost of the ability, so that using it versus single squads is pretty inefficient, yet very efficient against blobs. This will however make the vehicle pretty redundant, so raising its normal damage, so it's more consistent with vehicles around the 40FU mark should be considered.
What do you guys think would be a fair ammo cost, if it is changed like I describe?
I've heard people suggesting keeping it the same cost, but putting a delay on the shot. I'm against this suggestion though, as a blob (which I believe cannister is supposed to counter) will likely take out the vehicle before it gets its shot off.
30 Nov 2014, 17:12 PM
#18
Posts: 952 | Subs: 1
I've seen it happen many times in our team games.
In teamgames it makes sense that the density of units is high enough to prevent the greyhound from working the flanks freely on some maps. I have neither used nor faced a greyhound in teamgames where it had an serious effect, so I'll take your word for it.
In 1v1s though, balling up your troops is a good way to lose your map control really fast. You really can't afford move your troops in twos- and threes- just to capture one point, especially when your map control as ostheer is already so terrible to begin with on most maps.
To fix it, I think it should be super effective, however, it also should be super expensive.
I don't think the whole idea of one shot one squad is a good idea in the first place- it takes no effort to use, and is frustrating in the extreme to face. People have suggested the canister being able to stun, or being more like a grenade with increased delay, or affected by cover, to mitigate the effects of the shotgun shell, all of which would add an element of play and counterplay not reflected in the current manifestation of the canister shell, nor would be reflected in a version where it is simply more expensive and more effective.
30 Nov 2014, 17:13 PM
#19
Posts: 412
Why would anyone do that? The vehicle itself is rubbish and the ability is too munitions heavy to spam on multiple M8s.
Cause the greyhound can often one shot squads/nearly kill them & chase them down on retreat for the cost of 240 mp/40 fuel and 50 munitions a pop. That is a pretty great deal if you ask me, considering it comes at 3cp. USF can save munitions pretty well if they choose, just delay bars, the greyhound will get you much more mileage for that 50 munitions.
It'll also give you further map control which USF already enjoy, particularly vs Ostheer. OKW can get a Puma and the kubel slows down the yanks. No such early game hard counters for Ost.
In short, the unit needs an adjustment.
30 Nov 2014, 18:42 PM
#20
Posts: 62
If Canister Shot gets nerfed (and it probably should be) then the rest of that commander should get some improvements. Recon Support is kinda awful even as it is, and playing Rifle Company and Airborne all the time is getting kinda old.
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