Current State of the metagame : MG42s

I personally feel it needs either a tiny(and i mean tiny) suppression buff, or slight dmg increase(though once you can get it to vet 2-3 it does a lot better) Vet 0 mg42 however is something you have to use defensively until it gains vet, because sadly it'll be overrun and taken if used aggressively.

Hi. My comment would be that using an mg forces you into a lot of micro and you are much more likely to lose engagements because of babysitting it. The problem is it doesn't trade off too well. Even having prepared everything for a nice mg surpise for the attackers you have a high chance of losing the engagment because of smoke, granade or artillery, or others.

Because of mgs you lose a lot of your capping power. It forces so much more static play.

The worst thing is that even if you pin an infantry unit, very often you lose more models/health than the pinned squad. After they retreat you must retreat as well. (It's kind of funny - you feel you're winning because a squad got into your firing arc and is pinned. But after you count the bodies it's your mg that lost more squad members or health than the pinned squad).

And my fovourite bit - people keep telling you that you should pin with an mg and use grendiers to shoot at the pinned squad. The problem is it takes ages to babysit the situation and kill any models. One grenade of the opposing team and half of your army gone. Also they forget that there will be another squad runnig somewhere near - probably coming from behind. Such tactical advice would probably be ok if mg+grenadier squad cost not much more than one rifle squad.

Anyway, my suggestion is that if any infantry comes into the mg arc, it shoud get punished severly after being there for more than 2-3 seconds. They should have 2-3 seconds to retreat, pop smoke or they would take serious damage. It could be something like a model every burst in the open even at max distance. Basically they should be forced to babysit their squads more than just get into the arc and wait until the flank happens without almost any risk.

All good points, I totally agree. Not to mention that quite often a squad can just run through the arc, take 2 bursts and not get suppressed nor take any significant damage.
I feel the MG42 is just in a pathetic state right now.

Basically they should be forced to babysit their squads more than just get into the arc and wait until the flank happens without almost any risk.

+1.
And the thing that annoys me most is when some infantry, Riflemen or Airborne usually, just walk up to it from the front and kill it.
The MG should be a hard Counter to infantry in its arc, balanced by its lack of mobility and the limitations of said arc.
Right now, it just can't do its job, so i'm better off without it.
Personally, I find that sad. Seems they don't want us to use Combined Arms anymore.

Spot on! This is I think the worst for the whole game. Combined arms is much worse than spamming, and combined arms is what the game was best known for. (I still like the game though, but it's just a shame )

MG42 needs faster 'turret' rotation, it can only reliably suppress infantry in the middle of the arc and is mostly too late targeting infantry on teh sides
But for the rest I think 2 mg42s adn 2/3 grens is the strongest opening on most maps for 2v2 at least.

Wanted to comment but there is nothing to comment i want an early HMG in the USF army maybe trade the rear echelon for it?

Give rifes for it. But seriously speaking there are more problems with mg. They are related to the fact that now so many units have smoke or sprint abilities which again make mgs obsolete. (back in coh1 it was only mortars and then commandos; now the whole battlefield resembles foggy autumn morning in London - so much smog)

The worst thing is that even if you pin an infantry unit, very often you lose more models/health than the pinned squad. After they retreat you must retreat as well. (It's kind of funny - you feel you're winning because a squad got into your firing arc and is pinned. But after you count the bodies it's your mg that lost more squad members or health than the pinned squad).

And my fovourite bit - people keep telling you that you should pin with an mg and use grendiers to shoot at the pinned squad. The problem is it takes ages to babysit the situation and kill any models. One grenade of the opposing team and half of your army gone. Also they forget that there will be another squad runnig somewhere near - probably coming from behind. Such tactical advice would probably be ok if mg+grenadier squad cost not much more than one rifle squad.

Anyway, my suggestion is that if any infantry comes into the mg arc, it shoud get punished severly after being there for more than 2-3 seconds. They should have 2-3 seconds to retreat, pop smoke or they would take serious damage. It could be something like a model every burst in the open even at max distance. Basically they should be forced to babysit their squads more than just get into the arc and wait until the flank happens without almost any risk.

The crux of the problem..spot on.+1.Mg42-the wehrmacht trademark unit has become a joke.

And the thing that annoys me most is when some infantry, Riflemen or Airborne usually, just walk up to it from the front and kill it.
The MG should be a hard Counter to infantry in its arc, balanced by its lack of mobility and the limitations of said arc.
Right now, it just can't do its job, so i'm better off without it.
Personally, I find that sad. Seems they don't want us to use Combined Arms anymore.

I was playing a 4v4 with friends on La Gleize. A guard squad tried to flank my forces at the north VP, but my vet 0 or vet 1 MG42 was waiting behind the wooden fence a bit behind the house overlooking said VP. The guard squad came around the trees and was fired at by the MG42. They became suppressed but still crawled forward over the open snow-covered ground. They came within grenade range, threw their grenade, then wiped my MG42.

They weren't in cover, but they weren't in negative cover either.

I mean, wtf. I only looked over to see them chuck the grenade; I was expecting at least one flanking squad and had my counter properly setup behind a fence for cover and it gets wiped. I figured it was going to be o.k. and was microing other engagements near the village, but no, I was wrong. That shit makes me hate this game sometimes.

in 1v1s, against USF, I would honestly much rather get a sniper and an MG42 than two MG42s, but at 360 mp, you're better off saving that mp for a Pak gun against the M20 or M15.

I would definitely support slight buffs to everything previously suggested. Would it also make sense to have a grenade range nerf to every unit when suppressed? If you're crawling on the ground, it's harder to lob a grenade at range laying down than if standing up.

But for the rest I think 2 mg42s adn 2/3 grens is the strongest opening on most maps for 2v2 at least.

For 2v2 maybe, but for 1v1 that build is complete suicide. Not only are you sacrificing major capping power but without a friend to support you your mgs are going to get flanked left and right. Especially considering that a gren squad can't beat a rifleman squad at any range.

Take a look at this video at this precise time. I know flamethrowers are flamethrowers but... frontal

BartonPL vs KoreanArmy. Minute 7:52 (2 flames vs 1mg + grens)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0YhT0O_9gE#t=472

Im struggling with the MG42 as well, not more than one supported by tons of grens + rifle grenades is the only way for me!

This topic is like a De ja vu from a year ago... I cant remember MG42s being ok in this game :/
I still use them a lot, they are so much fun.

Take a look at this video at this precise time. I know flamethrowers are flamethrowers but... frontal

BartonPL vs KoreanArmy. Minute 7:52 (2 flames vs 1mg + grens)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0YhT0O_9gE#t=472

Im struggling with the MG42 as well, not more than one supported by tons of grens + rifle grenades is the only way for me!

He retreated not because of the flamethrowers but do to the fact the two units had gotten completely surrounded on all sides. Cons from behind the mg and the flamethrowers at the front.

He retreated not because of the flamethrowers but do to the fact the two units had gotten completely surrounded on all sides. Cons from behind the mg and the flamethrowers at the front.

Alright but beyond the big picture, lets focus on that little encounter. By the time one of the two engineer squads got suppressed, it was already on flamethrower range. Whats the point of an mg squad if you can't stop frontal infantry assaults? Even if Barton attacked with one engineer, I bet it was going to get burned anyways. And this is not even considering the squad of grens supporting the mg

And such situations keep happening all the time. The reason probably is that back at the beginning of mgs in coh 1 the idea was for it to pin. Other units (mortars or inf) were supposed to kill pinned units. It was supposed to be one of the ingredients of combined arms strategy. It has always been a problem to make it work. In my opinion it's high time to make an mg a regular killing NOT pinning machine. Squads could granade wipe it exactly the way they do it now but every burst of an mg should have a huge chance of killing models in all squads within its arc. It should be some kind of a risk vs reward scenario. If you crawl up to an mg you can grande it vs. trying it you may lose many models which will bleed your mp. All squads within the arc should suffer the same. More of them in the arc - more dead models. What do you ppl think?

Stränge things is, if you captured the Mg42 and use it against Germans it is brutal and almost instand pin

I feel all the important problems with mg were mentioned. The problem is the solution. If it's too powerful it will destroy the game. Too weak - combied arms mechanics suffers a lot as ppl stop building it or get frustrated how useless it is sometimes in situations when logically/intuitively speaking it shoud shine. Anyway, what do you think about giving it a really significant sight range boost? It could have two functions then. After setting it up its sight would increase. The unit wouldnt need a spoter. It would mean less babysitting for it and more time to pin. It would be more self sufficient - other units wouldnt need to be engaged and could cap somewhete else while an mg would guard some region of the map better on its own. Buying an mg would also mean buing a good spotter for the rest of your units. Ideally one of the models could have binoculars. What do you guys think?

The unit wouldnt need a spoter. It would mean less babysitting for it and more time to pin. It would be more self sufficient - other units wouldnt need to be engaged and could cap somewhete else while an mg would guard some region of the map better on its own. Buying an mg would also mean buing a good spotter for the rest of your units. Ideally one of the models could have binoculars. What do you guys think?

Nice idea, but it's too much work, imo no chance for it ever happening.
Relic didn't even let us to manually change the facing of garrisoned mg - this feature is so obvious yet un-implemented for such a long time, so I wouldn't expect any other changes, especially more ambitious like yours.

Former Presidential Candidate and Senator from Kansas, Bob Dole got raked bad by an MG42. I'm sure he would attest to it being a very cruel weapon. Spent like 3 years in a VA hospital and his arm has been paralyzed ever since.

Cool

Anyway, I feel that some vision buff might do the job. Now when an mg sees the unit there's too little time for it to start shooting. (When it has a spotter it's better but again you need another unit to accompany it which means a lot of manpower not doing too much) It could solve some problems as unpacked mg would see the unit approaching earlier and had time to unpack and pin the unit before the unit gets into granade/flame range.