Current State of the metagame : MG42s

So....HMGs..who the hell uses those anymore??

I used to NEVER play Oshteer without at least one MG42 squad, but now I find myself almost never needing them. Going with LMG Gren Spam is so much more efficient and stronger.

I really hope Relic adresses the MG42, and brings it back into the meta. I feel Oshteer loses its flavor without it.

Im not sure what could be done? ...Faster setup time? ...More dmg? ...More supression..or better Ai (auto target switching)


Please Relic Please!! Do something!


What do you guys think?

I'd say it needs a bit faster setup time and/or a slight damage increase to prevent being rushed head on with molotovs.

Buffs and nerfs need to be very cautious with such a unit though, it might totally break the game if done wrong. At the moment it's slightly underperforming in my opinion, especially on maps with lots of green cover.

I think you just pointed out the reason the mg42 is dead. Its that LMG anything is incredibly cost effective and versatile. If conscripts or penals had a DP option, Maxims would also never be used

Main issue in the smaller games I find with the 42 are the maps. Either there is too much green cover preventing its job, or the map is too narrow/crowded to make use of its range/ effectively spot flanks before they can hit. Semoisky, the 42 can't be effectively used in the center of the map until most of the green cover gets bowled down, yet that is also a vital area since it allows you to reach the cut-off of munitions on both sides. La Glaieze(sp), way too cramp/narrow streets to make use of range/arc, and they can catch the Mg out of position. Northern Part of the map on Road to Kharkov, green cover at your cut-off, buildings further south makes it role at suppressing diminshed. Stalingrad, why does this exist in automatch?

Khlodeny, while a bit more cramped, does have considerable amount of areas where an MG can lock down 1-2 points. Langreskya, 42 generally perform well since the only the hedges in the middle can bring unexpected surprises and even then they can generally be spotted before the enemy reaches the Mg or the point you are defending.

Only thing it really needs fixed is reloading during combat, and the thing firing the tiniest burst at the start when it decides to fire and occasionally not suppressing for some strange reason.

TLDR: Most maps bad/too narrow for Ostheer that relies on weapon teams.

Main issue in the smaller games I find with the 42 are the maps. Either there is too much green cover preventing its job, or the map is too narrow/crowded to make use of its range/ effectively spot flanks before they can hit. Semoisky, the 42 can't be effectively used in the center of the map until most of the green cover gets bowled down, yet that is also a vital area since it allows you to reach the cut-off of munitions on both sides. La Glaieze(sp), way too cramp/narrow streets to make use of range/arc, and they can catch the Mg out of position. Northern Part of the map on Road to Kharkov, green cover at your cut-off, buildings further south makes it role at suppressing diminshed. Stalingrad, why does this exist in automatch?

Khlodeny, while a bit more cramped, does have considerable amount of areas where an MG can lock down 1-2 points. Langreskya, 42 generally perform well since the only the hedges in the middle can bring unexpected surprises and even then they can generally be spotted before the enemy reaches the Mg or the point you are defending.

Only thing it really needs fixed is reloading during combat, and the thing firing the tiniest burst at the start when it decides to fire and occasionally not suppressing for some strange reason.

TLDR: Most maps bad/too narrow for Ostheer that relies on weapon teams.

Somehow...I NEVER get Langres anymore...Im guessing at higher level Allies always veto it. You forgot Minsk Pocket. MG42 is great here too...but still.

And vs US faction the MG42 is just shit! Because of the early vehicle play. You can get away with adding an MG42 to your mix vs Soviets....but never vs US. I think here, it would be a case of Relic finding a way to delay vehicle play for US, focusing more on Infy in the first 5-10mins.

It's not the MG42 that sucks, it's just certain maps that make MG42 so hard to use because of narrow alleys, flanking routes, hedges. (Kholodny, Kharkov, Stalinggrad, LaGleize,...)

I think its more than just the maps and the unit performance, Both USF and Soviets can just get smoke grenades fairly early and eliminate mgs from play so using just 1 usually doesn't work out.

But they can still work if you get a ton of them b/c they need alot of munitions and time and effort to smoke their way through like 3 mgs which ive had moderate success with...but then why didn't you just get 6 versitile grens instead of this highly immobile and fragile 3 mg army?

Also vs USF you really can't spam mgs very early b/c of the m20 threat, and then after you get t2 out why are you going to go back and try to get an mg spam going when they might already have nades, and will certainly have vehicles down your throat.

Im not saying the MG is weak or strong, just that there are so many ways to beat it which don't involve "running in from the front"

I think its more than just the maps and the unit performance, Both USF and Soviets can just get smoke grenades fairly early and eliminate mgs from play so using just 1 usually doesn't work out.

But they can still work if you get a ton of them b/c they need alot of munitions and time and effort to smoke their way through like 3 mgs which ive had moderate success with...but then why didn't you just get 6 versitile grens instead of this highly immobile and fragile 3 mg army?

Also vs USF you really can't spam mgs very early b/c of the m20 threat, and then after you get t2 out why are you going to go back and try to get an mg spam going when they might already have nades, and will certainly have vehicles down your throat.

Im not saying the MG is weak or strong, just that there are so many ways to beat it which don't involve "running in from the front"

I think you nailed a big issue here...smoke nades. They are way too good at pushing back MGs. But then, I wouldnt want them gone, because I feel they are a great gameplay addition.

I really think ...a serious Damage buff is the way to go here. MG42s are meant to be a scary threat...what if you could get heavy dmg immediately out of the first burst...forcing a quick retreat...the MG42 would then switch auto to the next target, effectively pinning multiple squads rapidly. Maybe augment the cost of the MG42 team to 300??

I think DMG buff is the way to go.

In addition to what has been said, a forward retreat point greatly reduces the punishment, if you are careless enough to run into a mg with a blob thus making it less rewarding to use in a good way.

Mostly map balance needs to be addressed. Maps like stalingrad are cool visually, but feck all use for 1's ladder matches.

Aside from that, a tiny adjustment to the unit AI and traverse speed would be lovely, but nothing too radical, as the MG42 a long time ago was dominating the meta. Don't want a return to that either.

Mostly map balance needs to be addressed. Maps like stalingrad are cool visually, but feck all use for 1's ladder matches.

Aside from that, a tiny adjustment to the unit AI and traverse speed would be lovely, but nothing too radical, as the MG42 a long time ago was dominating the meta. Don't want a return to that either.

I dont know....I mean, without it dominating the meta...I still think the MG42 should be a no brainer for ANY Oshteer Strat. Right now Ostheer is considered weakest faction, and I think this is due (amongst other things) to the MG not performing. I myself am not against bringing it back close to its former glory.

It could definately use a small buff.

IMO the main problem is reliability.
If you cannot count on a unit then that unit may be nice in a midgame support role, but not as one of the initial units and possibly the lynchpin for covering an approach or flank.

There is a fair chance that any mg will not suppress an advancing unit within the expected number of bursts.
This happens because of the reload animation kicking in after the initial burst, some specks of yellow cover (barely enough to cover 1 or 2 soldiers) or just plain old RNG.

i think theyre fine as is. Theyre not supposed to be a frontline killing machine. Relic cant force people to stupidly walk in front of an MG. Theyre supposed to act as a trap or as a small obstacle, forcing your opponent to use munitions and/or slowing down an advance to deal with your obstacle.

HMG might only not seem effective because one of the first things you have to learn to do in coh is how to counter an HMG crew.

i think theyre fine as is. Theyre not supposed to be a frontline killing machine. Relic cant force people to stupidly walk in front of an MG. Theyre supposed to act as a trap or as a small obstacle, forcing your opponent to use munitions and/or slowing down an advance to deal with your obstacle.

HMG might only not seem effective because one of the first things you have to learn to do in coh is how to counter an HMG crew.

I disagree, HMGs are ineffective since half the time they can't even do what they're supposed to do (suppress infantry that does walk into its arc).
And even when they do, USF get the magical two-click counter called Smoke Nade.

...
Theyre supposed to act as a trap or as a small obstacle, forcing your opponent to use munitions and/or slowing down an advance to deal with your obstacle.

I can only speculate on the developers intended propose but frankly what you are describing sounds more like a nuisance then an early combat unit.

Also keep in mind: Given the new cover mechanics suppressing any unit with access to short fuse time (cooked) grenades either requires a spotter or its risky.

i think theyre fine as is. Theyre not supposed to be a frontline killing machine. Relic cant force people to stupidly walk in front of an MG. Theyre supposed to act as a trap or as a small obstacle, forcing your opponent to use munitions and/or slowing down an advance to deal with your obstacle.

HMG might only not seem effective because one of the first things you have to learn to do in coh is how to counter an HMG crew.

Dammit...its an MG42!! ..If you walk in front of it ..you should be dying! A trap? A small obstacle?? Cmon! They are the backbone of the Oshteer early game....right now they cant support squat! I dont use them anymore., or sometimes in mid or late game, cuz Im trying to hold a point and have 240 mps lying around. Tis sad.

I find that if an Ost player does not use HMG then it is considerably easier to win as USF.

By using the HMG it forces several things from me as a USF:

1) Forces me to consider buying nades early. This delays fuel.
2) Forces me to use care during my approach. I cannot afford to retreat, much less get pinned.
3) Can completely deny a sector because of point number 2. If I don't get nades, I will ignore the areas where MGs are posted till I get an m20.

In general, a HMG may not seem effective to you but trust me it is definitely a thorn in the side of your enemy. Even if your opponent seems to be countering your HMG efforts easily (and it most likely is not easily done, just seems so).

I laugh and sigh when no HMG is present. kek.

I find that if an Ost player does not use HMG then it is considerably easier to win as USF.

By using the HMG it forces several things from me as a USF:

1) Forces me to consider buying nades early. This delays fuel.
2) Forces me to use care during my approach. I cannot afford to retreat, much less get pinned.
3) Can completely deny a sector because of point number 2. If I don't get nades, I will ignore the areas where MGs are posted till I get an m20.

In general, a HMG may not seem effective to you but trust me it is definitely a thorn in the side of your enemy. Even if your opponent seems to be countering your HMG efforts easily (and it most likely is not easily done, just seems so).

I laugh and sigh when no HMG is present. kek.

With an HMG ...Ost gets no map control early. It is not an investement either, as Grens scale a lot better late game with LMGs. Ive had a lot more success without them myself. I would love to play against you, see if you laugh and sigh vs 4-5 Grens eventually equipped with LMGs. I think youll mostly die

It needs DPS buff and de-setup time buff.

I can press T the moment conscripts wind up for molotove but still manage to get lucky crit wipes.