Blobbing

@Ratchet. Give advice or say nothing. You should know better than this...

@Sierra Sounds like your lacking early game vision control for your HMG! Really need to ensure they are firing from long/mid ranges because otherwise rifles in cover will shoot down the crew members at short/mid ranges. Don't overextend to get vision because your vulnerable to flanks. Sometimes being content with 1-2 strategic points less can really let you repel flanks better due to sufficient vision for HMG and more concentrated support. 1 VP, 1 ammo and maybe 1 fuel (keep it neutral at worst-case) is all you need as Axis early on for both OKW/OST.

Learning when to actually concede map control is one of the hard things to learn in CoH I find but with combined arms it is extremely important to recognize! Counting your opponents squads, knowing roughly their distribution on the map and keeping in your memory how many have retreated really helps. Obviously most easily applied in 1v1 to do this compared to team games.

I think it's best solution to make "penalty zeal" (just like pios had in coh1) where units gets a little nerf when they are close to each other.

I'd suggest - 3% received accuracy penalty (easier to hit) for each squad (starting with 2 next to each other) and up to 6 stacks (7 squads near with total penalty of 18% for each squad), radius like 5-10 metres

Allow friendly fire with small arms and insert a parameter of friendly fire % while a friendly unit is in front of you and you'll probably kill the blob by itself.

Learning when to actually concede map control is one of the hard things to learn in CoH I find but with combined arms it is extremely important to recognize!

This.

It's one of the most important thing to learn. There are times when you just have to give up some ground and reclaim it with a counter-attack. I've did it before and it worked. From the outside of my base to the other side. This is especially true for Ost because not conceding ground usually results in death of squads.

I honestly think blobbing is not that big of a deal. All factions have tools to deal with it.

Youre one of the few in this thread that dont think this is a big deal. I wonder why?

Plz add Blobbing to Major issues on Trello.

Son, blobbing aint tactical, let that be very clear.

Well here is a definition I got out of merriam-webster

a : the science and art of disposing and maneuvering forces in combat
b : the art or skill of employing available means to accomplish an end

Now, to be fair, there are certain other things that have not or cannot be defined or are defined differently among individuals here.

Using definition a, blobbing is tactical. Definition b also agrees, but you may at your will call into question the skill of anyone making blobbing decisions. Romeo is often teased for his blobbing, yet he has achieved 2 rank#1 positions. I would say he is practicing his art/skill well, now the rank 2000+ player might not be so skilled. All depends on who your talking about.

We know some people are better than others, but this definition is proof that blobbing is a viable tactic. It has been used very very frequently in real life war as well as in fictional stories. Watching Lord of the Rings (which I am not a big fan of), all you see is blobbing. D-day = blob.

Still, it depends on how your defining a blob. For some, it's just a large force attacking at once. For others, it is a large force attacking at once, but all in extremely close proximity, little care given to leverage the advantages of any particular weapons range, no care given to take advantage of terrain or cover, and complete disregard for safety.

Pretty much any decision any player makes is a tactic. The large meta-goals a player goes for is a strategy (like choosing a tiger doctrine and not building any other armor than the tiger).


http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tactics

That's all good, but in my opinion click-dragging 5 squads and moving them forward isn't a tactic, it's rubbish.
But you don't have to agree man.

I agree most of the time it's a rubbish tactic. Not all tactics are winning tactics. 1 side has to fail.

I think it's best solution to make "penalty zeal" (just like pios had in coh1) where units gets a little nerf when they are close to each other.

I'd suggest - 3% received accuracy penalty (easier to hit) for each squad (starting with 2 next to each other) and up to 6 stacks (7 squads near with total penalty of 18% for each squad), radius like 5-10 metres

Love this idea if only it could happen...

On another note Romeo come on its not a problem lol, you shouldn't be able to do a frontal attack on and HMG and win especially it gets really silly with the elite infantry

interesting, the 3 idea sounds, I think their should be a suppression bouns if there is more than 3 of the same squad clumped together

They did this in vCOH where airborne strafe off map did exponentially more damage the more insta were in the strafe box. One squad in there and you will lose 30-50% of models. 3 or 4 squads and you were going to lose about 60% and get at minimum one squad wipe.

Or they could simply put a threshold on number of units that are within a radius of each other and give incremental nerfs for each model over that threshold. You would still be able to group squads in pairs but 3+ all on one grouping would cause say 10% accuracy received and 10% suppression. A 4th squad would make it 20&20 as so on and so forth.

I think it's best solution to make "penalty zeal" (just like pios had in coh1) where units gets a little nerf when they are close to each other.

I'd suggest - 3% received accuracy penalty (easier to hit) for each squad (starting with 2 next to each other) and up to 6 stacks (7 squads near with total penalty of 18% for each squad), radius like 5-10 metres

Great minds think alike! Just posted Getting together a poker game for morning of Black Friday. You interested? Just posted something very similar before I saw your post. Too me that would be a perfect fox if implemented for all forces although OKW and USA are the most egregious blobbers IMHO.

Great minds think alike! Just posted Getting together a poker game for morning of Black Friday. You interested? Just posted something very similar before I saw your post. Too me that would be a perfect fox if implemented for all forces although OKW and USA are the most egregious blobbers IMHO.

Inviting Barton may eventually lead to war on the table.


Anyway, I like that penalty zeal there. I can't wait to see it implemented. It's getting boring just doing the same thing almost every game because I know he's gonna blob like a madman.

Move as a blob, cap as a blob, fight as a blob, get killed as a blob, retreat as a blob and get wiped as a blob. You just see this very frequently now.

The problem I see is that the WFA have units that heavily favor blobbing and some changes need to be made to them, not the fundamental mechanics of the game. Ost blobbing and Sov blobbing aren't that viable, and their enemies can counter that fairly easily. The main problem is that Ost cannot counter USF blobs very well and USF cannot counter OKW blobs very well.

Something that I will propose as why these factions cannot counter blobs effectively is that they have a low threat to wipe squads. OKW has stukas, sturmtigers, the luchs, and very hard hitting infantry that can threaten to wipe squads while the soviets have demo charges, zis barrage, effective indirect fire options, ISU, and effective ai grenades on elite infantry.

Now the Ost don't really have anything that great at threatening blobs with wiped units; USF medium tanks are fairly evenly matched with Ost mediums, most of the USF infantry can also snare vehicles, and the long range 57mm at-gun all work to repel Ost tanks to prevent major squad wiping threats from Ost. The high dps USF troops coupled with smoke grenades will make it difficult for Ost to deal with the blob using infantry and mgs.

On the other hand, when USF faces OKW volks blobbing, they have very few reliable counters to that. The volks blobs great ability to have both AI and AT prevents the USF to keep constant pressure on a blob because anything they use will quickly need to be pulled back for repairs/ reinforcements. This leaves indirect fire to fill the role that the other two can't, which the USF largely lacks units to fill that role. The USF hmg is, while very good, very weak and any serious infantry push can easily overwhelm it with long range firepower.

The best way to help USF would be to buff their support weapons, and this would also help give the army more incentive to use combined arms. The hmg should be given a 5th man (they are fighting against armies designed to kill mgs with 50% more health on the soviet side, the 4 men is much too weak) and the pack howitzer should have its cost, popcap, and reinforcement cost lowered, to give a greater incentive to using it more.

I do not know what should be changed about Ostheer.

I do not know what should be changed about Ostheer.

They could start by making the MG crew turn faster so you can at least suppress the blob at max range if you have someone spotting.

That's all good, but in my opinion click-dragging 5 squads and moving them forward isn't a tactic, it's rubbish.
But you don't have to agree man.

it is a valid tactic, but it doesn't mean it is skilled, fair, good. Tactics are just a way to handle a situation. I can hide under the chimney during an earthquake, is it a smart tactic? no it is not, but it is a tactic nonetheless

Well, that's your opinion.

Tactics involve thinking and analyzing situations. Sending in smokepots or baraging smoke with your mortars, to get to the MG emplacements to plant a democharge, to than run your troops in cause you managed to destroy the MG bunker is a tactic, cause it involves thinking and acting accordingly.

But again man, it's my opinion and you don't have to agree with it.

People have complained about blobbing in every RTS I've ever played.

Just use aoe and suppression. The tools are there, if they're not working you aren't using them properly. Combine artillery with suppression and you will win every engagement vs blobbing.

I would love to see something like: Rifle and Paras hidding in green cover, taking fire from blob and then suddenly Paras with Thompson jump out from bend and attack that blob. That would be great but...

Just use aoe and suppression. The tools are there, if they're not working you aren't using them properly. Combine artillery with suppression and you will win every engagement vs blobbing.

You gotta replay of that? Would love to see it.