Resource manipulation as the primary catalyst of imbalance
29 Dec 2014, 16:17 PM
#41
Posts: 327
Exactly. You just need to look at the rate of resource income in team games to see how wrong the effect of the RM systems is. They either lead to 300-500 FL float for teams that are full on popcap or constant deployment of armor for teams that have popcap to fill.
30 Dec 2014, 07:40 AM
#42
8 
Posts: 2470
personally,i tend to aggressively build mun catches so i can spam globals and it prevents us from ending up with 6 fuel caches and a huge fuel float late game.
30 Dec 2014, 14:04 PM
#43
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
OKW should have less fuel than other factions, right? Well... Let me quote myself from different thread.
"Just lost a 1v1 game because of King Tiger.
It lasted 41min.
Fuel expenses:
Me:
Lieutenant (50), Major (90), Bazookas (15), M20 (20), AA truck (60), Priest (115), 2x Jackson (250) = 600 fuel.
OKW player:
Tier 2 (40), Tier 3 (40), Tier 4 (80), Kubel (5), Panther (175), King Tiger (260) = 600 fuel.
So, where is this fuel starvation?"
Of course there was blob of Volks with Schrecks, enough muni to make mines and throw few grenades so dont say that OKW have to sacrafice muni for fuel.
And what's more, I took his fuel 3 times so in the end I had both fuel for 2-3mins maybe and before he retook it, it was about 4-6mins without any fuel point.
"Just lost a 1v1 game because of King Tiger.
It lasted 41min.
Fuel expenses:
Me:
Lieutenant (50), Major (90), Bazookas (15), M20 (20), AA truck (60), Priest (115), 2x Jackson (250) = 600 fuel.
OKW player:
Tier 2 (40), Tier 3 (40), Tier 4 (80), Kubel (5), Panther (175), King Tiger (260) = 600 fuel.
So, where is this fuel starvation?"
Of course there was blob of Volks with Schrecks, enough muni to make mines and throw few grenades so dont say that OKW have to sacrafice muni for fuel.
And what's more, I took his fuel 3 times so in the end I had both fuel for 2-3mins maybe and before he retook it, it was about 4-6mins without any fuel point.
30 Dec 2014, 14:32 PM
#44
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
Were you floating fuel? Did you check his fuel income? I mean getting the fuelpoint doesn't mean starving him from it.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
30 Dec 2014, 15:33 PM
#45
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
Were you floating fuel? Did you check his fuel income? I mean getting the fuelpoint doesn't mean starving him from it.
Yes, I had more fuel to spend but point is I did not have enough MP.
Vehicles have higher upkeep than inf, right? OKW can rely only on inf in fact.
I need some vehicles to counter that inf, for example:
2x Raketen, 2x MG, 1x Stormpios, 4x Volks with schrecks, 2x Obers = 208 MP income
Major, Lieutenant, 3x Rifles with LMG or Zooks, 1xRE, 1xMG, 1x Jackson, 1x Priest, 1x Ambulance, 1x M20 = 187 MP income.
It's 11 vs 11 but pop cap is 76 for USF and 62 for OKW!
These are really big differences.
OKW always has MP advantage so when OKW has enough fuel, it can easily spend it.
As any other faction you fuel to spend but you are missing MP all the time.
Also vetted Volks or Obers models are really hard to kill because of recived acc bonus so it helps to collect man power.
30 Dec 2014, 16:34 PM
#46
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
Without entering on balance issues and just analysing your match:
-You failed to capitalize your light vehicles. M20 and AAHT
-Priest is not the greatest idea on 1v1. If you go for it, you should decrew it after each salvo.
-Its kinda logical that if the match was even or back n forth, by that amount of time, he could had amass that amount of fuel. Specially if after getting their shrecks, he switch muni to fuel.
-You failed to capitalize your light vehicles. M20 and AAHT
-Priest is not the greatest idea on 1v1. If you go for it, you should decrew it after each salvo.
-Its kinda logical that if the match was even or back n forth, by that amount of time, he could had amass that amount of fuel. Specially if after getting their shrecks, he switch muni to fuel.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
30 Dec 2014, 17:01 PM
#47
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
Without entering on balance issues and just analysing your match:
-You failed to capitalize your light vehicles. M20 and AAHT
-Priest is not the greatest idea on 1v1. If you go for it, you should decrew it after each salvo.
-Its kinda logical that if the match was even or back n forth, by that amount of time, he could had amass that amount of fuel. Specially if after getting their shrecks, he switch muni to fuel.
M20 got 2 vet. Same as AA truck. Yes, I could use them better but in the end I was satisfied with M20 and AA.
Priest is great vs OKW. 3 barrages - 16 kills. Not awesome BUT Priest can punish really heavy units retreating to med truck.
That's why he turned it off and had to reatreat to the base instrad of med truck.
What's more, Priest+Off map can almost kill forward trucks. It's very useful sometimes.
I would say I had advantage for 70% of the time but I could not push hard to finish him because USF lack of such units.
I was going to win when King Tiger appeard and wrecked all my inf.
Wipes everywhere...
30 Dec 2014, 17:26 PM
#48
Posts: 327
Let's not drift away from the subject please.
30 Dec 2014, 17:39 PM
#49
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
M20 got 2 vet. Same as AA truck. Yes, I could use them better but in the end I was satisfied with M20 and AA.
Priest is great vs OKW. 3 barrages - 16 kills. Not awesome BUT Priest can punish really heavy units retreating to med truck.
That's why he turned it off and had to reatreat to the base instrad of med truck.
What's more, Priest+Off map can almost kill forward trucks. It's very useful sometimes.
I would say I had advantage for 70% of the time but I could not push hard to finish him because USF lack of such units.
I was going to win when King Tiger appeard and wrecked all my inf.
Wipes everywhere...
I'm gonna put it simple, if he was able to save fuel for the KT, you weren't winning as hard as you think.
IF you go M20 + AAHT you better finish the game prior to having to field a tank. It's better if you just upload the replay rather than telling your side of the story.
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-
Ontopic:
RM comes mostly on 3v3+ when you can't punish as hard the mp diverted.
It has been discussed before. 3v3+ has flaw mechanics and map design problems. Adjusting this modes means a different balance system and adding changes that might affect the whole reason people play this modes.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
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