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Win-Ratio 29.10. - 21.11.2014 + Other Fun Stats

24 Nov 2014, 08:35 AM
#61
avatar of JohnnyB

Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Nov 2014, 08:35 AMJaigen


yuou know if their was a rifleman with a bar for each volks the result would be a horrific slaughter of all those volks.


Well, if the OKW player is Scavange or Special Ops I wouldn't be so sure. Every volk squad would throw 5 grenades and the slaughter would be vice-versa!
24 Nov 2014, 08:37 AM
#62
avatar of Lümmel
Patrion 14

Posts: 542 | Subs: 1

this game is a lot more balanced than you guys think. the problem is that there arent that many high skill (no offense) 3v3 and 4v4 players. quite frankly a lot of the talent and skill in the player pool is focused in 1v1s and 2v2s, so 3v3s and 4v4s can become lopsided matches. axis is 'easier' to play at lower skill levels, but there are a lot of things allies can use to leverage superiority, however a lot of players dont realize this. the axis have to do several things to stay relevant and keep map presence, and its up to the allied players to be prevent them from doing said things, and exploiting them afterwards.


This sums up the whole 3v3/4v4 discussion pretty well.
Although 5 Vets for OKW are bull, especially if you are fighting against multiple OKW.
Early game advantage for allies is close to non-existant in 3v3/4v4.
24 Nov 2014, 10:15 AM
#63
avatar of Jaridan

Posts: 45

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Nov 2014, 19:05 PMMedster


How can you just pull a number like that if you don't know the total number of players?


Because that's basic statistics. If you have 1k samples of USF 1v1s, then the results won't change if you had 10k samples for usf 1v1 (all same mode ofc)
24 Nov 2014, 11:17 AM
#64
avatar of somenbjorn

Posts: 923

Perhaps this picture from Legends OP on the official forums might be missing. Take a look at it.



24 Nov 2014, 16:54 PM
#65
avatar of Napalm

Posts: 1595 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Nov 2014, 08:37 AMLümmel


This sums up the whole 3v3/4v4 discussion pretty well.


That doesn't summarize the 3v3/4v4 discussion at all. The combined arms of the Axis force in 4's is greater in every sense than the combined arms of the Allied forces. Singular unit adjustments will help the balance a bit but the largest impact will be filling unit gaps in the Allied armies.

The overbearing balance of 4's
.
24 Nov 2014, 17:04 PM
#66
avatar of Rupert

Posts: 186

Looking at the data provided, I wonder if all the factions were IDENTICAL with just different skins and names, we'd still have similar results statistically.

My bet - probably real close.
24 Nov 2014, 17:09 PM
#67
avatar of Dullahan

Posts: 1384

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Nov 2014, 10:15 AMJaridan


Because that's basic statistics. If you have 1k samples of USF 1v1s, then the results won't change if you had 10k samples for usf 1v1 (all same mode ofc)


Depends if it's a random sample of players or not. If he just takes the top 1000 players, then you have to consider the effects of player skill on the results.


24 Nov 2014, 18:37 PM
#68
avatar of Gneckes

Posts: 196



Depends if it's a random sample of players or not. If he just takes the top 1000 players, then you have to consider the effects of player skill on the results.



Quite the opposite, actually.
Differences in skill levels and "l2p issues" should be much less impactful for top-rank players than they would be for the broad mass of players which would undoubtedly make up the vast minority of a random sampling.

Essentially, it comes down to whether or not you want to balance "from the top".
24 Nov 2014, 19:08 PM
#69
avatar of NinjaWJ

Posts: 2070

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Nov 2014, 18:37 PMGneckes

Quite the opposite, actually.
Differences in skill levels and "l2p issues" should be much less impactful for top-rank players than they would be for the broad mass of players which would undoubtedly make up the vast minority of a random sampling.

Essentially, it comes down to whether or not you want to balance "from the top".


Relic has already stated that they will balance "from the top", unfortunately i don't have the quote with me.
24 Nov 2014, 20:33 PM
#70
avatar of Dullahan

Posts: 1384

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Nov 2014, 18:37 PMGneckes

Quite the opposite, actually.
Differences in skill levels and "l2p issues" should be much less impactful for top-rank players than they would be for the broad mass of players which would undoubtedly make up the vast minority of a random sampling.

Essentially, it comes down to whether or not you want to balance "from the top".



For balance purposes you absolutely should consider the top ~500 players more than anyone else. But when we're talking about overall faction win rates it's important to think about the other skill brackets too. Especially when we compare across game modes. I doubt there's very many pro teams playing 4v4, so perhaps the OKW inflated winrate is simply a matter of lower skill and not inherent imbalance.

IMO win/loss rates are very rarely indicative of actual balance issues. When I played DoW2 most factions had pretty even win/loss ratios, but player distribution between factions was heavily skewed. And it didn't really have much bearing on the actual game balance, since for the entire lifetime faction win/loss was similar despite huge imbalances. (Because again, pro players can make anything work by simply outplaying lesser opponents often enough to inflate their ratio.)
24 Nov 2014, 20:38 PM
#71
avatar of Romeo
Honorary Member Badge
Benefactor 115

Posts: 1970 | Subs: 5

Well, win/loss ratio is a useful indicator if there's like a massive imbalance because obviously 65/35 means there's a serious problem that needs to be addressed with a hammer.

Once it gets to 50/50 you need to switch back to a scalpel.
24 Nov 2014, 20:48 PM
#72
avatar of dreamerdude
Benefactor 392

Posts: 374

honestly i just think that 4v4 allies are full of... bad players... or that thier team work is really bad.

that is mostly the case when i play anyhow
25 Nov 2014, 07:05 AM
#73
avatar of Seolfor

Posts: 26

The top 200 is frankly a highly skewed subset to look at for Win%. The infamous and undoubted 'micro/skill' tax on all USF players is obviously mitigated by higher skilled players at Top200.

The same data for Top 3000 would show significantly different results. Especially 1v1s.
25 Nov 2014, 09:44 AM
#74
avatar of Highfiveeeee

Posts: 1740

I never understood why Relic doesn't do separate balancing for 3v3 and 4v4.
Meaning that changes only affect these game modes. So you can say e.g. OKW gets 10% less fuel in 3v3 and 4v4 but 1v1 and 2v2 still stays as before.
25 Nov 2014, 10:35 AM
#75
avatar of dpfarce

Posts: 308

Perhaps this picture from Legends OP on the official forums might be missing. Take a look at it.




If I'm reading this properly;

the fact that there are a lack of (or abundance of) USF 4v4 games means that their win rate is HIGHER than it should be?


25 Nov 2014, 13:09 PM
#76
avatar of somenbjorn

Posts: 923

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2014, 10:35 AMdpfarce



If I'm reading this properly;

the fact that there are a lack of (or abundance of) USF 4v4 games means that their win rate is HIGHER than it should be?




hmm I missed some of Legends post.

"
There has been discussion about if these stats are skrewed towards factions which has played more. So, I ( actually google ) calculated correlation between games played and win-ratio. You can do your own conclusion but my conclusion is that the stats turstworthy. 4v4 is only game mode whose ratios are a bit towards to factions which have played more. US's 4v4 ratio could be round 15% higher if it was as popular as others. In 1v1, 2v2 and 3v3 factions' correlation are negative and positive which balance outcome. And also those correlation are so small that they are (almost) meaningles."
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