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Jakson and M10

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JohnnyB
11 Nov 2014, 11:29 AM
#1
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Hi COH2 gamers and fanboys :).

I know a big part of you feels that USF has little answer to Axis heavy armor in late game, mainly because not a strong enough AT solution, so I wanna put my 2 cents in. Please state your opinions and tell me how you think these 2 AT-dedicated units should be changed (if you think they should be changes at all). I think that a health increase is necesary or their AT capabilities need to be buffed somehow.
BeefSurge wrote:
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
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Stonethecrow01
11 Nov 2014, 11:41 AM
#2
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Posts: 379

The only change I think regarding these two is a slight buff to the damage and penetration of the M10.

The M10 comes at 7cps and so isn't meant to be a heavy tank counter. I feel like the Tank Commander call-ons are there so you can go tier 3 heavy and still get reasonably solid tanks -> M10 + Bulldozer without teching to tier 4.

The Jackson is extremely good vs other armour, its guns already as powerful as I feel you can make it so the only options to buff it vs other armour would be to increase the armour of the Jackson itself which goes against the design of the unit.

I feel USF play similar to CoH USA, your late game involves getting a greater variety of units rather than "better" units like the axis game involves.
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negativg
11 Nov 2014, 12:55 PM
#3
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I think acceleration increase for M36 so its more responsive (what Cruzz already did for his mod I think), and MAYBE a very SLIGHT RoF or reload speed increase.

Alternatively HP increase would be welcomed, but then it could easily become OP, as its not intended to slug it out with heavies. But now if you want to go in aggresively you may lose 1-2 then Axis heavy lolblitzes to safety with sliver of health and you are f#$%ked. And you are kind of forced into P-47s, at least in team games.
Just my opinion, maybe I am wrong :)
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ElSlayer
11 Nov 2014, 13:20 PM
#4
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Uh...

Buff Jackson pen to the point when +pen ability is needed only against really heavy armored vehicles: Panther, KT, JT.

Lower M10 CP requirement by 1.
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elchino7
11 Nov 2014, 13:48 PM
#5
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M10 should arrive earlier. It should have the same HP as the Jackson.

The Jackson will remain a hard* unit to use (besides 1on1) and you can't really buff** it without changing the damage per shell.

I remember certain unit which dealt the same damage per shell, but it got a reload buff and damage nerf to make it more consistent.

*It's easier to lose since you have a minor margin of error.
**A buff on pen, when using AP, is not out of mind.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.

Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.

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elchino7
11 Nov 2014, 13:48 PM
#6
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M10 should arrive earlier. It should have the same HP as the Jackson.

The Jackson will remain a hard* unit to use (besides 1on1) and you can't really buff** it without changing the damage per shell.

I remember certain unit which dealt the same damage per shell, but it got a reload buff and damage nerf to make it more consistent.

*It's easier to lose since you have a minor margin of error.
**A buff on pen, when using AP, is not out of mind.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.

Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.

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Lokust22
11 Nov 2014, 14:14 PM
#7
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Posts: 79

You can buff these units as much as you like, but the US still won't be able to fight anyone who is around a corner.

Personally, I think the Jackson is fine (I don't use the M10, so can't comment). I think it would be more sensible if its penetration was higher and its damage was lower. The logic of a high damage low penetration shot eludes me.
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Interloper
11 Nov 2014, 14:26 PM
#8
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Posts: 93

If the M10 had smoke it would make it a better flanker which is what it is designed to do. Get the flank in, get those rear shots while using flanking speed and pop smoke to get out without getting killed off by supporting AT.
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JohnnyB
11 Nov 2014, 14:29 PM
#9
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Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1

As I said, being a dedicated AT tools, it wouldn't be wrong to buff their AP capabilities. I mean, ok, they are thin cans, but at least they need to do their job properly. This way, they are still dying fast, but they achieve their purpose. OR they need to survive longer to do their job, which means not an armor buff, but rather a health buf.
BeefSurge wrote:
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
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emil_fh
11 Nov 2014, 14:46 PM
#10
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Posts: 28

Dont think they shoulld recieve a health buff, because IMO they ar not supposed to slug it out tank versus heavy tank. For balance I think the m10 could use some higher penetration, so it is able to consistently penetrate if flanking tanks. For m36 it seems quite good to me, wouldnt mind some better acceleration like people mention, to keep it responsive. A bit higher pen or maybe even range to make it a good sniper could be fun to try out.
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sneakking
11 Nov 2014, 14:49 PM
#11
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Posts: 655

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Jackson, for the most part, works as intended. Maybe a slight penetration buff to it's vet 1 ability. But the M10 could use some work, I'd like to see it a little more agile/mobile to serve it's purpose better. It's not much faster than a Jackson but it preforms far less effectively. This makes it very unappealing - why get a doctrinal unit that does the job worse when you could get a non-doc unit that does the same thing better? It's role as a basic long-range TD is already fulfilled. So perhaps giving it a deceleration/acceleration buff, it would be more viable as a fast flanking unit, like the Puma. Also, maybe more line of sight, to reflect the tank's open-topped design.
A Fallen Scrub
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Romeo
11 Nov 2014, 15:17 PM
#12
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Jackson could use more acceleration and a buff to its AP rounds ability.

M10 needs more health and accuracy.












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sneakking
11 Nov 2014, 15:20 PM
#13
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jump backJump back to quoted post11 Nov 2014, 15:17 PMRomeo
Jackson could use more acceleration and a buff to its AP rounds ability


Why increase the Jackson's acceleration? It doesn't need to be fast if it's a TD. It just needs to be good at being a TD.
A Fallen Scrub
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pugzii
11 Nov 2014, 15:22 PM
#14
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Posts: 513

The jacksons a great tank, the issue is it dies to the volks shreck hordes to easily.
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Ace of Swords
11 Nov 2014, 15:30 PM
#15
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Id like to see a small nerf in the jackson damage, but make it reliabily penetrate all heavy tanks, it's ridicolous to see tigers sometime getting almost oneshotted by 3 jacksons, sometimes not even a single shot penetrates.












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Esxile
11 Nov 2014, 15:50 PM
#16
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I think the M36 deserves

Or a better penetration at any range
Or a faster reload so it shot faster.

Right know, it problems is its windows of opportunity to shot is too small, and with that shitty pen, it is kind of useless.
So or you make sure when it shots, it damages something, or you give him 2x more try to pen anything.
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Romeo
11 Nov 2014, 15:52 PM
#17
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jump backJump back to quoted post11 Nov 2014, 15:20 PMsneakking
Why increase the Jackson's acceleration? It doesn't need to be fast if it's a TD. It just needs to be good at being a TD.


To improve its ability to kite.
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Spanky
11 Nov 2014, 15:58 PM
#18
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Jackson is fine, i wouldn't change anything with it. M10 is fine aswell, it's an awesome tank but the downside is the crazy slow turret rotation. Vet1 gives the m10 a AP round that lasts for a few seconds, if you are lucky you can manage two shots with it and it inflicts alot of damage. Vet 2 unlocks Nitros. :D

But really, both tanks are performing as they should in my opinion.
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Romeo
11 Nov 2014, 16:04 PM
#19
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jump backJump back to quoted post11 Nov 2014, 15:58 PMSpanky
Jackson is fine, i wouldn't change anything with it. M10 is fine aswell, it's an awesome tank but the downside is the crazy slow turret rotation. Vet1 gives the m10 a AP round that lasts for a few seconds, if you are lucky you can manage two shots with it and it inflicts alot of damage. Vet 2 unlocks Nitros. :D

But really, both tanks are performing as they should in my opinion.


In 1v1. In 2v2 I really struggle to make any use of M10s. In anything higher they're completely worthless. I think increasing their survivability and reliability is the best way to round out their performance in other modes without making them too good in 1v1s.
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Spanky
11 Nov 2014, 16:13 PM
#20
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You are right, they are fantastic in 1v1. I had a game yesterday, where me and my mate were facing 3 tigers and 1 jagdtiger. Guess what, i flanked the jagd with 6 m10's and then made toast of the 3 tigers aswell at the cost of 1 M10. :banana:
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