About the B-4

I don't like this units, huge damage and stuff, but I think it's fine balance-wise.

Moon.. keep it constructive man

I understand that but saying B4 is micro intensive isnt really constructive either

There seems to be a very important aspect that most of us here are forgetting. Coh2 has commanders not just for fun, but for reacting to your opponents choices. A b4 can be countered by offmap. "But than I dont have a tiger!!!" Well, your opponent has no heavy either, so enjoy this non-heavy game. Oh btw you have an elephant.
A b4 is strong, agreed, but it might be thé counter against all the heaviest armor in the game.

Let's say we nerf the poor thing's damage, instead of really hurting a KT or JT, it's just going to do a decent amount of damage, absolutely not really dangerous. That doesnt make sense, because the soviets need to counter the more heavy armor with something. Also, forget about heavy tanks, you only have the Kv-1, which is 0 against axis armor.
Su85 ? Please.

If you are going to be aggressive and put your forward bases as okw far ahead? Well they might get destroyed, but that's a part of the game.
Going to get your tanks repaired at the repairstation? Well captain obvious, expect a b4 strike. Hear the 'boom'? Get your tanks moving.

Cant counter it? You didnt go for offmap? Well thats on you.
Sneak in a stuka and kill the crew. Too much effort? Looks like it.

I completely agree about some lazy attitudes here. It requires absolutely nothing to kill that thing. Except a tiny bit of brains.

Everyone saying b4 is not a problem and how easy it is to counter it hasnt really playing against it, especially as ostheer. Playing as ostheer feels like Forrest Gump.

Chat transcript of every TAB game ever:


Loading screen:

- Do they have anything that can counter B4?

- Nope

- Bwhahahah

I feel someone is talking about me....

+++++++++++++++++++++

Wall of text from B-4 lover incoming:

Is the precision strike strong? Yes, yes it is. Is the %50 dmg increase at Vet3 insane? Yes, yes it is that needs to be toned down.
Is the precision strike too cheap? No no it isn't. In a 4v4 you will have around 350-450 mp depending on how much muni you use when the B-4 is out. That is not spamming nades with Shocks, but rather one or two at-nades. T-1 is something that doesn't mix well with Counterattack doctrine anyway, the muni being just the icing on the cake.

That is 5 shots at 90 muni a pop before all that muni is out, considering you are getting muni all the time you might get some 7-8 shots off (using no recon plane) before the lack of muni rather than the cooldown dictates how often it can fire.
I will often have a muni income of about 45-54 in teamgames so that is a little under two minutes of cooldown on the precision strike. Sure you can get munipoints galore and get it up, but then you are either winning big or are going to loose because you have no fuel.

What I'm saying is: increasing the reload time for precision strike will have little effect, in lategame it fires when you can afford to fire.

Now yes 7 well placed shots with the B-4 is 7 tanks out of the action or 7 blobs that are divided into bite-sized chunks.


How to you avoid this and make the B-4 player hate your guts?

1) Don't blob. I giggle everytime I see a blob in the LOF. I laugh like a maniac when I see said blob disappear in a cloud of limps and XP markers. Don't blob and 90 muni is expensive for a single Volks, maybe not ober, but definatly the regular infantry.
2) Shift your direction of the main armour strike. What I want to see is the enemy attacking time and time again on the same place. the I don't have to move the Big Beloved B-4. Moving this fattie takes ages. Seriously 20 seconds, but shifting focus and keep moving means I have to reposition it AGAIN and the difficulty for me to effectivly give fire is reduced.

3) If you retreat a heavy tank that is damaged and I don't know where it went, your repair truck might look like a juciy target. Don't place units in obvious places. Equally if you have felt Stalins sledgehammer blow down upon you, you might wanna rethink retreating infantry to your forward HQ. If you love me you will not move the retreatpoint and I get to see your army go flying.
Also if you have a damaged tank and you start seing recon aircraft, keep moving them around, shoot the plane and stop somewhere nice to repair, this makes me hate you. If this happens I willd a regular strike in your general direction and donate a pound of butter to Gaben so that RNG will bless me with a hit.

4) Call in the Luftwaffe. Fuck you Göring! Fuck your 50kg bomb and fuck your siren. I hate you.

5) Realise that I have the choice of either hitting your rear area or keeping my B-4 snuggly close to my base, but then only reaching the middle of the map.

6) Fallshirms, I will burn/blow up/piss on any house behind it. Garden them fallshirms for wiping my crew. Also anything that wipes the crew is a bitch, that is stuka zu fuss, (range a problem? see 5) ) Light artillery barrage, which used to destroy it aswell, now it will most likely decrew it. Fragmentation runs will not decrew it most of the time, put that muni somewhere else.


This thing is a high-reward, high risk unit. It is not a god unit (but it is a good unit), it is static, moves slow as hell, narrow arc of fire, dies easily (like two riflenades and it is decrewed) , expensive to run (usage is restricted by cost rather than cooldown.) and insta coutners are readily availible.

I understand that but saying B4 is micro intensive isnt really constructive either



Everyone saying b4 is not a problem and how easy it is to counter it hasnt really playing against it, especially as ostheer. Playing as ostheer feels like Forrest Gump.

What? You have Stuka, what is the problem?

Everyone saying b4 is not a problem and how easy it is to counter it hasnt really playing against it, especially as ostheer. Playing as ostheer feels like Forrest Gump.

Wait, Wait, wait... Are You saying that playing as Ostheer versus B-4 is difficult? Do I understand You correctly?

Australian Magic and Somenbjorn the two most unbiased players when it comes to the B-4!

Australian Magic and Somenbjorn the two most unbiased players when it comes to the B-4!

My mind is blowing when I hear that B-4 can't be countered.
It sounds like laziness of some Axis players.

What? You have Stuka, what is the problem?

Lets be clear here. Im talking about 1v1 and from ostheer point of view. Ofc its easier to counter b4 in higher modes cause you get more variety/abilities from different teammates. Tell me what does ostheer player really have to counter such unit? Or do i always have to go for some shitty commanders with stuka dive bomb?

Wait, Wait, wait... Are You saying that playing as Ostheer versus B-4 is difficult? Do I understand You correctly?

No, im just saying its hard to counter b4 as ostheer.

My mind is blowing when I hear that B-4 can't be countered.
It sounds like laziness of some Axis players.

Funny that before the patch there were cry threads about how axis are op and now that its vice versa its not about allies op but about axis laziness

Funny that before the patch there were cry threads about how axis are op and now that its vice versa its not about allies op but about axis laziness

And if the b4 was a axis unit tri vet would be balanced because 'if you allow it to get vet you deserve to loose '

Being more serious. So there are different commanders for 1v1 than teamgames? Ost still does have a two click counter. Barring that there are plenty off things you can do to negate and knock the b4. Check my wall of text

I think its fairly obvious the 90% Axis / 10% allies ratio in game is reflected fully in this forum.

As OKW I only need a 5 second gap to get my walking stuka within range of the B4 and its dead.. not to mention off-maps etc which are a complete hard-counter to this unit..

I think its hilarious that the one unit that can provide some help against axis super-heavies is being cried about.. was only a matter of time.

I don't get it.
When the JT hardcounters vehicles, it's broken and OP (which I agree with), but a B-4 wiping out entire armies in one shot is somehow fine?

I don't get it.
When the JT hardcounters vehicles, it's broken and OP (which I agree with), but a B-4 wiping out entire armies in one shot is somehow fine?

If the JT could be killed by a single off map stuka strike, or by firing a walking stuka at it, I would not care about the JT.. you see the problem in your logic?

and yet nobody mentions the abusive decrewing b4`s with molotows and therefore reducing its pop, mp drain significantly..

This game would be some much better without ISU-152, JT and B4

ps. and w/o Elefant as well for that matter (it would not be needed anymore + a doctrine having both recon AND bombing strike was stupid from the start).

and yet nobody mentions the abusive decrewing b4`s with molotows and therefore reducing its pop, mp drain significantly..

I am not even mad. This is amazing.

If the JT could be killed by a single off map stuka strike, or by firing a walking stuka at it, I would not care about the JT.. you see the problem in your logic?

The only off/on map strike that actually destroys the howitzer is the Stuka divebomb. Everything else decrews it at most, which doesn't help you at all because of how cheaply it can be recrewed.

and yet nobody mentions the abusive decrewing b4`s with molotows and therefore reducing its pop, mp drain significantly..

Also this.

The B-4 and the ISU 152 synergize extremely well together, I suggest to use the following strat which works wonders in 2v2 especially on maps like semois, minsk, charkov.
One Player goes t1/sniper/guards into ISU 152 while the other goes t2/shocks into KV-1 B-4.
Make sure that the ISU player does the minig so you can save up muni for your precision strikes.

If you're lucky the OH player will try to counter your snipers with a mortar HT and the ISU-152 will make sure the Walking Stuka can't come close.

Voilà free reign for the B-4.

There seems to be a very important aspect that most of us here are forgetting. Coh2 has commanders not just for fun, but for reacting to your opponents choices. A b4 can be countered by offmap. "But than I dont have a tiger!!!" Well, your opponent has no heavy either, so enjoy this non-heavy game. Oh btw you have an elephant.
A b4 is strong, agreed, but it might be thé counter against all the heaviest armor in the game.

Let's say we nerf the poor thing's damage, instead of really hurting a KT or JT, it's just going to do a decent amount of damage, absolutely not really dangerous. That doesnt make sense, because the soviets need to counter the more heavy armor with something. Also, forget about heavy tanks, you only have the Kv-1, which is 0 against axis armor.
Su85 ? Please.

If you are going to be aggressive and put your forward bases as okw far ahead? Well they might get destroyed, but that's a part of the game.
Going to get your tanks repaired at the repairstation? Well captain obvious, expect a b4 strike. Hear the 'boom'? Get your tanks moving.

Cant counter it? You didnt go for offmap? Well thats on you.
Sneak in a stuka and kill the crew. Too much effort? Looks like it.

I completely agree about some lazy attitudes here. It requires absolutely nothing to kill that thing. Except a tiny bit of brains.

+100

The only off/on map strike that actually destroys the howitzer is the Stuka divebomb. Everything else decrews it at most, which doesn't help you at all because of how cheaply it can be recrewed.




Also this.

The B-4 and the ISU 152 synergize extremely well together, I suggest to use the following strat which works wonders in 2v2 especially on maps like semois, minsk, charkov.
One Player goes t1/sniper/guards into ISU 152 while the other goes t2/shocks into KV-1 B-4.
Make sure that the ISU player does the minig so you can save up muni for your precision strikes.

If you're lucky the OH player will try to counter your snipers with a mortar HT and the ISU-152 will make sure the Walking Stuka can't come close.

Voilà free reign for the B-4.

Yes and there are 3 commanders that have recon/stuka combo... Are you honestly telling me on a 2v2 map you cannot push with your volks super blob and have a stuka creep behind and barrage a B4? Because I have done it many, many times. Moreover; if your playing 2v2 one of you should be OST anyway for counter-play against these kind of strategy's which is exactly what the commander system was made for.

If your still having issues with a single ISU-152 stopping your entire army from making a single counter push in one direction to get your stuka within range of the B4 I think this is a L2P issue. If your still struggling I am more than welcome to play a few OKW games with you and I'm sure we will come up against a B4 and I will show you what to do.

This game would be some much better without ISU-152, JT and B4

How is the B-4 even in the same leauge as those units? all do huge amounts of damage, 1 can be wiped by two clicks and 160 muni.

-------------------

Wait all are saying that the precision strike is what makes the B-4 too good, but you are also saying decrewing doesn't matter?
Decrewing matters greatly, a no-vetted B-4 only does damage if someone rushes up to it from the front or if I sacrifice my mother to RNGesus to get a good hit with that spread.


As for the ability to get more B-4 for less pop.. Well that has to be a bug that needs fixing, but the B-4 (like previously stated) is restricted more by munition cost than it is restricted by pop or reload time.

I don't get it.
When the JT hardcounters vehicles, it's broken and OP (which I agree with), but a B-4 wiping out entire armies in one shot is somehow fine?

You can kill B-4 with 2 clicks without even leaving your base.

You need whole army and coordinated strike from at least 2 directions and often off map support to bring down JT.

See the slight difference?