About the B-4

The old Tiger Ace was in literally only one doctrine and it was obvious when your opponent was using it... thus it was balanced.

An OP unit is going to be OP no matter in how many docs it is.

So I'm not sure what your point is... are you saying Tiger Ace is OP? Or that B-4 is balanced? Because surely, you're saying one or the other.

So I'm not sure what your point is... are you saying Tiger Ace is OP? Or that B-4 is balanced? Because surely, you're saying one or the other.

I´m saying neither is balanced. I was just applying that logic "it´s only in one doctrine and thus balanced" on another unit that´s clearly OP, to show that this argument is bad. Both are OP.

I´m saying neither is balanced. I was just applying that logic "it´s only in one doctrine and thus balanced" on another unit that´s clearly OP, to show that this argument is bad. Both are OP.

CoH2 OP. Pls nerf Sega.

Sega should leave COH2 as it is for now. I think it performs okay for its cost, at least in this matchup. Relic on the other hand needs massive buffs

Sega should leave COH2 as it is for now. I think it performs okay for its cost, at least in this matchup. Relic on the other hand needs massive buffs

I agree, I'd like to see Relic play a more important role in this Meta.

Back on Topic:

I believe the B-4 suffers from the same problem that the ISU-152 and JT suffer from- there's just no real counterplay possible, which makes gameplay stale and rage-inducing.

Saying "just always keep your tanks moving!" is typical Katitof, but it's not a practical counterplay.
It's like saying "just keep your tanks out of sight!" as a Counter to the JT.
Essentially, unless you're fortunate enough to have the right doctrine chosen/in your lineup, you're just going to get pounded by Stalin's Hammer over and over, with very little you can do.

I'm using B-4 almost always if enemy don't have doctrine with Stuka. It has pros and cons.ha
If I go for B-4 I have no late-game tank. Panther, Tiger, King Tiger etc. almost no counter except poor SU-85.
It's hard to get vet on this.
It does not "one shot Panther or Tiger". It deals a lot of damages (at vet 3) but it's not one shot, unless vehicle is damaged.
It's the only counter against properly micro Jadgtiger.
If you just leave tank shooting from one place it's your fault that B-4 hit you. You know there is B-4, so you know you must nor stay in one place.
Rotation speed is very, very low.
You want to counter B-4? It's doctrinal unit so use other doctrinal stuff. Stuka, Le FH 18, even barrage ability (the one with JT doctrine) if B-4 is at the point.
I don't know... Maybe you just want take doctrine in first few seconds, dont carre about enemy's one, and no matter what have counter against everything enemy can get. No, it's not like this.
It's like "You don't see any vehicles? So you can find out there will be KT and you can prepare for this" but in this sutiation it should be "You see schocks? Were there others doctrines with shocks? No? So you can prepare for B-4" And on, and on...
B-4 is fine. Most of the time it's your fault if you know there is B-4 and it still hit you.
___
Sorry fot the chaos in my post.

I believe the B-4 suffers from the same problem that the ISU-152 and JT suffer from- there's just no real counterplay possible, which makes gameplay stale and rage-inducing.

Stuka? Walking Stuka? Flanking? Off map barrages?

Saying "just always keep your tanks moving!" is typical Katitof, but it's not a practical counterplay.
It's like saying "just keep your tanks out of sight!" as a Counter to the JT.
Essentially, unless you're fortunate enough to have the right doctrine chosen/in your lineup, you're just going to get pounded by Stalin's Hammer over and over, with very little you can do.

There is a difference between B-4 nad JT. JT has superpower. No matter where you will move your tanks, no matter if you will hide behind the house, JT will get You.
B-4 - precision strike - it really easy to dodge since you know there is B-4.
And if you don;t have in your line up counter for this, it's your fault.

your avatar and signature make me think you might be a tiny bit biased

This community is pretty funny sometimes.

The B-4 is effective at what it should be and that is a massive artillery piece with good damage. It is micro intensive, expensive to build, and static. It is expensive to operate with precision strike as people are forgetting them something needs to spot for this gun as well. What I am seeing right now is a lot of excuses. The foe is too lazy to counter it for whatever reason and get angry when it gets Vet and proceeds be on the receiving end of precision shots.

It is static emplacement. The counters to this are pretty much unlimited. Quit hording your munitions for Shrek's and LMG's and bomb the thing. Poor judgement and laziness is not a balancing issue.

Full disclaimer: I stopped using the B4 numerous patches ago. It is a high risk high reward unit but I have found the ML20 much more useful. Yes, I said that. The ML20 can deny an area whereas the B4 is like a sniper rifle with a high probability of missing for the first 5 minutes and than requiring gold ammo to fire.

your avatar and signature make me think you might be a tiny bit biased

Well, I'm not arguing beacause that's obvious
But still I'm open for a discussion and arguments. right now I don't think B-4 is OP.

By the way... 3 day ago, Kubel survived 180muni shot from B-4. Almost no health, killed gunner, no engine damage but survived

Doubled. Sorry.

It's ok, but +50% damage at 3 vet? Sorry that's a bit too much.
It's a very good counter against the heaviest tanks, I like it.

People think the B-4 is too strong? That's a surprise to me, considering the last time I used one the damn thing missed a 60 meter shot so bad it didn't even harm the target. The only problem with the B-4 is that you put all your hope into a literal RNG cannon, and the only way to get rid of the RNG is to get winning dice-rolls so you can buy Precision Strike for 90m a shell.

the b4 puts a timer on the game. if the axis dont destroy the b4 within a certain period, the b4 will just continue to snipe support weapons, the occasional infantry squad, and your trucks. there is actually NO WAY for the axis player to recuperate these losses faster than the b4 can fire, because it has a ridiculous cooldown of 40 seconds or something like that.

breaking support weapons are of utmost priority for allies since enemy paks and machineguns are a pain to deal with in the late game. if you start nailing a truck, usually the enemy will be bring their sturms and pios to start repairing. then you use a precision shot and just wipe them.
you just keep bleeding enemies and they lose to a manpower war.

also regarding the argument that the limiting factor of the b4 is the 90 munition cost, its not that big of a deal. the soviets dont have that many munition drains to begin with, so its not too difficult to save several hundred munitions by the time you have a b4. you may use a few AT grenades in the early mid, maybe a few shock grenades, mines here and there. but as long as you hold atleast one munition point, MAYBE make a cache or two, then youll definitely be set to use precisions strike for a lot of shots.

About the thing I mentioned...
Kongiskubel Ace vs B-4 and 180muni ability.

the b4 puts a timer on the game. if the axis dont destroy the b4 within a certain period, the b4 will just continue to snipe support weapons, the occasional infantry squad, and your trucks. there is actually NO WAY for the axis player to recuperate these losses faster than the b4 can fire, because it has a ridiculous cooldown of 40 seconds or something like that.

Interesting reversal; Axis in general puts Allies on a timer in team games

Maybe that's what our allied team games are missing, B-4's! Thanks for the ideas, thread.

If the opponent is too stupid or lazy to counter a single B4 try two ML20's. Much more effective. Cross their firing arcs for maximum pain.

This community is pretty funny sometimes.

The B-4 is effective at what it should be and that is a massive artillery piece with good damage. It is micro intensive, expensive to build, and static. It is expensive to operate with precision strike as people are forgetting them something needs to spot for this gun as well. What I am seeing right now is a lot of excuses. The foe is too lazy to counter it for whatever reason and get angry when it gets Vet and proceeds be on the receiving end of precision shots.

It is static emplacement. The counters to this are pretty much unlimited. Quit hording your munitions for Shrek's and LMG's and bomb the thing. Poor judgement and laziness is not a balancing issue.

Full disclaimer: I stopped using the B4 numerous patches ago. It is a high risk high reward unit but I have found the ML20 much more useful. Yes, I said that. The ML20 can deny an area whereas the B4 is like a sniper rifle with a high probability of missing for the first 5 minutes and than requiring gold ammo to fire.

Biggest bullshit evah.

If the opponent is too stupid or lazy to counter a single B4 try two ML20's. Much more effective. Cross their firing arcs for maximum pain.

600 mp vs 1200 mp + population costs.

the only thing I'd change ot B-4 is it's reload time, it's now like 60 secs which is not much tbh, damage and everything else sould stay the same, I'd be most happy if regular soviets and germna arty get some love and they could be used way more often even in 1v1 games, cuz at the moment they are never seen

the only thing I'd change ot B-4 is it's reload time, it's now like 60 secs which is not much tbh, damage and everything else sould stay the same, I'd be most happy if regular soviets and germna arty get some love and they could be used way more often even in 1v1 games, cuz at the moment they are never seen

+1

Some of the responses in this thread though.