reading these posts, although this strafe might be overperforming, i think the problem is with Anti Air availability on all the factions. although okw gets it easier with default flack emplacement and flak tier.
i think one main problem is that there are many times you can't simple build AA halftrack, quad mount M5, ostwind to counter the enemy air.
it is more like "well, if you've already gone with the tier that includes AA, good for you, but if you haven't,oh well. as the OP pointed out, opportunity cost for building an AA unit to counter is way too much.
JU-87 Strafe shredding tanks.
9 Nov 2014, 14:57 PM
#61
4 
Posts: 4301 | Subs: 2
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9 Nov 2014, 15:02 PM
#62
Posts: 1122
Omg, huge cost anti-tank strafe kills medium tanks, nerf NOW.
Only thing need to be done is buff for Il-2.
Only thing need to be done is buff for Il-2.
9 Nov 2014, 15:20 PM
#63
Posts: 934
I agree it is to strong currently. However, if Relic do reduce the strength of the ability they must also reduce the ammo cost significantly as well.
I've been doing this for a while in 1v1 to deal with the typical T1-T2 -> ISU lamers. I get down 2-3 ammo OP's prior to 11 CP's and start saving ammo. Once they get their ISU just do mortar smoke, minesweeper and P4 rush on the position with the strafe overhead and it works everytime.
It is sad seeing SU-85 get trashed by it. I do not shed tears for the ISU's though
I've been doing this for a while in 1v1 to deal with the typical T1-T2 -> ISU lamers. I get down 2-3 ammo OP's prior to 11 CP's and start saving ammo. Once they get their ISU just do mortar smoke, minesweeper and P4 rush on the position with the strafe overhead and it works everytime.
It is sad seeing SU-85 get trashed by it. I do not shed tears for the ISU's though
9 Nov 2014, 15:26 PM
#64
Posts: 133
If any allied player used an ability this strong there would be a half dozen of these posts on this forum. The American rocket planes already have been called very op and they do less damage and cost more munition.
The reality is that the Germans who already have superior AT in the form of infantry, tanks and AT guns, should not also get the best AT call ins. The German army needs to have some things that lack behind allied players (currently it's things like artillery and assault guns) and in the argument for good balance, this is one of them.
The reality is that the Germans who already have superior AT in the form of infantry, tanks and AT guns, should not also get the best AT call ins. The German army needs to have some things that lack behind allied players (currently it's things like artillery and assault guns) and in the argument for good balance, this is one of them.
9 Nov 2014, 15:33 PM
#65
Posts: 23
Give the faction with best late game AT and tanks another AT ability ?
Who comes up with these ideas?
Who comes up with these ideas?
9 Nov 2014, 15:34 PM
#66
Posts: 2742
JU-87 might deal a good amount of damage to allied armor, but it doesn't deny half of the map of all vehicle activity for an extended period of time like P47s.
Even if no P47 rocket hits anything, it can lock down a massive chunk of any map. (And if there's a reinforcing halftrack anywhere in the ginormous radius, there's gonna be some casualties.)
Just saying, there's often more to a unit or an ability than just sheer DPS.
Even if no P47 rocket hits anything, it can lock down a massive chunk of any map. (And if there's a reinforcing halftrack anywhere in the ginormous radius, there's gonna be some casualties.)
Just saying, there's often more to a unit or an ability than just sheer DPS.
Strategic Territory Points Mod:
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9 Nov 2014, 16:09 PM
#67
Posts: 1617
"Working as intended"
9 Nov 2014, 16:20 PM
#68
Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1
JU-87 might deal a good amount of damage to allied armor, but it doesn't deny half of the map of all vehicle activity for an extended period of time like P47s.
Even if no P47 rocket hits anything, it can lock down a massive chunk of any map. (And if there's a reinforcing halftrack anywhere in the ginormous radius, there's gonna be some casualties.)
Just saying, there's often more to a unit or an ability than just sheer DPS.
Euhm... you know there is a loitering JU-87 strafe right? The one that does in fact deny a lot of territory to allied armor? And, as a bonus, is also fairly good at wrecking AT guns when there are no vehicles around?
9 Nov 2014, 16:25 PM
#69
Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3
I find this thread so funny because same complaints were said about the p47 rocket strafe and all the guys whining now were saying how fine it's to have a skillplane.
The p47 rocket strafe still does more damage, the splash damage destroys nearby support units and infantry. You don't need to be even in the circle to get shot by it you only need to be in the circle while the planes lock on.
In every post in this thread you can literally exchange stuka for p47 and you get the same result.
Dealing about 400 damage to a single unit is not op nor overperforming for this costs taken into account a p47 eats half of health of any tiger variant.
The p47 rocket strafe still does more damage, the splash damage destroys nearby support units and infantry. You don't need to be even in the circle to get shot by it you only need to be in the circle while the planes lock on.
In every post in this thread you can literally exchange stuka for p47 and you get the same result.
Dealing about 400 damage to a single unit is not op nor overperforming for this costs taken into account a p47 eats half of health of any tiger variant.
If you need to know stats of certain unit: http://stat.coh2.hu
Which faction is OP and which is UP? Check it out here
Tips for beginners and wannabe pro's
Which faction is OP and which is UP? Check it out here
Tips for beginners and wannabe pro's
9 Nov 2014, 16:28 PM
#70
Posts: 589
Both are too good. USF late game in another matter entirely.
9 Nov 2014, 16:31 PM
#71
Posts: 1158
It's going to need further adjustment. I really haven't faced it much since the new patch, but I think it was used to destroy my vet3 at gun once. I agree with Stephenn though, that a price reduction should come along with the adjustment. It should be good support, but not do the damn job itself. In that video the tiger was the support.
29 Jul 2014, 12:16 PM by siuking666:
T34/76 is NOT a joke on my hands; Maybe on your hands you make it suck shit? but on me, No. I can kill a stug with a little micro, go toe to toe with a Panzer 4. Is it a joke? LOL T34/85 is apparently a very good tank. But no one says it "one hit wipe" or elefant penetration; up to a point i think this little medium tank just have too much health and too much firepower with that fuel cost.
9 Nov 2014, 16:41 PM
#72
Posts: 219
It was rather down to 30% not 20%. Assume all shots would hit.. maybe 75%, and that's the same amount of damage that a single p47 deals in a single pass, given the fact that there are 2 p47, the american anti tank run has still twice the potential damage of the german one.
+ your agrument "dodgeable" is somewhat invalid since u haven't tried to dodge the Ju87
To add to this, the P47 stays in the air for an insane amount of time and it's on a faction that's way less ammunition intesive than axis is (or atleast that's how I feel between grenades and shit I always float like 300 ammo as USF but barely 60 with oshteer).
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9 Nov 2014, 16:59 PM
#73
Posts: 2070
reading these posts, although this strafe might be overperforming, i think the problem is with Anti Air availability on all the factions. although okw gets it easier with default flack emplacement and flak tier.
i think one main problem is that there are many times you can't simple build AA halftrack, quad mount M5, ostwind to counter the enemy air.
it is more like "well, if you've already gone with the tier that includes AA, good for you, but if you haven't,oh well. as the OP pointed out, opportunity cost for building an AA unit to counter is way too much.
exactly.... look at how AA works as Soviets. You have to build T3 first, and there's no way youre going to build T4 after that. It is an either or approach unlike OKW, who get their AA for free on their flaktruck
Axis doesn't have the best AT options in the game
9 Nov 2014, 17:10 PM
#74
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
JU-87 might deal a good amount of damage to allied armor, but it doesn't deny half of the map of all vehicle activity for an extended period of time...
Agreed, nerf JT first!
...like P47s.
Oh.
Even if no P47 rocket hits anything, it can lock down a massive chunk of any map. (And if there's a reinforcing halftrack anywhere in the ginormous radius, there's gonna be some casualties.)
Just saying, there's often more to a unit or an ability than just sheer DPS.
That is pretty much the point of loitering abilities, stay and take it deep up your ass or move away and wait it out.
The problem is probably allied armor being too squishy and slow in general then the ability being too good.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
9 Nov 2014, 17:13 PM
#75
Posts: 1595 | Subs: 2
Well you see, Ost needed something. Panzerschrecks are under performing, Panther is too slow, Pak 40 requires too much effort. Ta-da! Re-introducing the A/T Strafe.
The views and opinions expressed in my posts and topics are solely those of the Napalm. These views and opinions do not necessarily represent those of Relic, the developers, The Angry Bears and/or any/all contributors to this site.
9 Nov 2014, 17:17 PM
#76
Posts: 1221 | Subs: 41
JU-87 might deal a good amount of damage to allied armor, but it doesn't deny half of the map of all vehicle activity for an extended period of time like P47s.
Even if no P47 rocket hits anything, it can lock down a massive chunk of any map.
JU-87 targeting area radius: 60. Duration: 80 seconds
P47 targeting area radius: 60. Duration: 80 seconds
9 Nov 2014, 17:47 PM
#77
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
I find this thread so funny because same complaints were said about the p47 rocket strafe and all the guys whining now were saying how fine it's to have a skillplane.
The discussion is more like: P47 is overperforming but since late game USF is "crap", they have that going for them.
JU-87 targeting area radius: 60. Duration: 80 seconds
P47 targeting area radius: 60. Duration: 80 seconds
GGWP NORE.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
9 Nov 2014, 18:18 PM
#78
Posts: 1248
Yeah they buffed the hell out of it last patch. And now we have this, since Relic don't know how to or don't bother to actually play test their changes.
Um, what? You think Incendiary Barrage is game breaking? You do realise that when you see that Red Smoke you can just walk out of it... like every other off-map arty ever except for strafing runs which do have smoke but have a massive radius that can't be dodged. If you're having problems with off maps abilities that are completely dodgeable then I think it says something about your skill level and how valid your opinion is on balance.
Also Incendiary does not instantly shred 80% off any tank (apart from IS2), nor does it instantly 80% infantry. It only works at forcing MG's and AT guns to make up before a big push, or area deny.
Insta-wipe IL2 of the past was OP and game breaking with no chance for counterplay... that's why it was nerfed. That's how balance works.
I see you're a little stupid in the head for not leaving as soon as the flares touched the ground. I saw your SU-85 move a few metres back and just sit there being like meh come strafe me. Now for the sherman? it gave 0 shits whether it was gonna be strafed or not.
9 Nov 2014, 18:59 PM
#79
Posts: 420
There is one thing that bothers me tho, it seems the JU87 attacks both vehicles and infantry. And it's potential vs infantry is devastating as well.
I gotta test the IL2 once again.
I gotta test the IL2 once again.
I will simply lol at anyone expecting such a change to a 2 year old general use infantry.
Equally possible are pershing for USF, IS-3 for soviets or ober nerf for OKW.
9 Nov 2014, 19:04 PM
#80
Posts: 168
OK... It's now the Axis equivalent of the P47, but I agree it is very effective. Maybe a little too effective.
I would be happy to see a slight cost increase and the removal of its ability to hit non AT targets such as infantry. But other than that, I think it's fair.
Personally, I don't even use it with Tigers. I use it with Panthers and Command Tank. And usually I call it in when I see a couple of ISUs or IS2s. Call that in, run in with a pair of panthers and maybe a command tank if the game has gone on that long and you will dominate. I had a number of recent games where my panthers vetted up to 3 in no time with the support of this unit, soviets just didn't expect it whatsoever.
It is quite vulnerable to all the AA units in the game though. Multiple times I've had it shot down on first pass or even half way through first pass resulting in 200 munitions on barely any damage output.
I would be happy to see a slight cost increase and the removal of its ability to hit non AT targets such as infantry. But other than that, I think it's fair.
Personally, I don't even use it with Tigers. I use it with Panthers and Command Tank. And usually I call it in when I see a couple of ISUs or IS2s. Call that in, run in with a pair of panthers and maybe a command tank if the game has gone on that long and you will dominate. I had a number of recent games where my panthers vetted up to 3 in no time with the support of this unit, soviets just didn't expect it whatsoever.
It is quite vulnerable to all the AA units in the game though. Multiple times I've had it shot down on first pass or even half way through first pass resulting in 200 munitions on barely any damage output.
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