How to fix ISU-152 and JagdTiger

Im glad the idea of manual firing didnt make it in the game. I think constant babysitting and rapid hitting of keyboard shortcuts is not equal to skill or micro. Ive already suggested some of my ideas how to fix these beasts, but now i give it another try.

Instead of manual firing mode i would just give them two type of shells which should be switched manually when the situation requires is. Switching shells should come with a long cooldown (like 30 or 40 sec) so it could not be done rapidly.

ISU-152:

Concrete-piercing shells:

• High range (around 80)
  
• High armour penetration (effective against german heavies)
  
• Small AOE (ineffective against infantry)
  
• for AT purposes only
  

HE or High Explosive shells:

• Smaller range (around 60)
  
• Low armour penetration (still good against light vehicles)
  
• Large AOE (chance to eradicate infantry squads)
  
• for AI purpose only
  

JagdTiger:

Concrete-piercing shells:

• Ability to fire through any obsticles
  
• Less damage or Penetration
  
• Smaller range (around 70 or 80)
  

AP or Armour Piercing shells:

• Full range (around 90-100)
  
• High penetration and damage
  
• Cannot fire through any obsticles
  

With these changes both tank could keep their abilities and roles, but players should make tactical decision which shell do they use in which situation. In other words you cannot use these units so carelessly, because with the wrong type of shell your tank wont be so effective, not even when it auto-fires. Im not telling you these changes could completely fix the units, but i think these could be a start to the right direction.

What do you think?

Rounds fired through shot blockers could have penetration reduced, but that would require actual calculations from the engine and could not be easily patched in.

and you have entirely missed the things that cause issues with these units. deleting of units is not fun or interesting, whether it's a tank or an infantry squad.

Rounds fired through shot blockers could have penetration reduced, but that would require actual calculations from the engine and could not be easily patched in.

Thats right.
Its a more ortodox way to say, if you use rounds which can fire through obsticles, you will have decreased penetration. So basically you decrease the penetration when you using such a shell. Ofcourse its not so realistic because you not necessarily fire through objects, but its easier to code imo.

I had the other idea one day, how about minimum range of 20-25? Still effective at range, useless when rushed.

and you have entirely missed the things that cause issues with these units. deleting of units is not fun or interesting, whether it's a tank or an infantry squad.

Fun for me to get infantry deleted. Makes me excited. Only losing vehicles is not fun.

and you have entirely missed the things that cause issues with these units. deleting of units is not fun or interesting, whether it's a tank or an infantry squad.

Yes its frustrating, but you can play with the stats.

Rounds fired through shot blockers could have penetration reduced, but that would require actual calculations from the engine and could not be easily patched in.

Correct me but is this meant ironically?
As far as I know every object also has a defined "type" such as wood, stone, etc. which would make this calculation quiet easy. Reduce the penetration for 5% everytime the projectile goes through wood, 15% for stone etc.
You could say that the bullet will stop if the penetration goes down 50%.

• Full range (around 90-100)
  
• High penetration and damage
  
• Cannot fire through any obsticles
  What do you think?

Srsly? That would make the JT even better.

Small AOE (ineffective against infantry) rly?
isu-152 have 45 kg ammo from ml-20 art gun
welcome to the world of elves and gnomes

before writing study characteristics of real prototypes was be

Balance before realism.

I like all the ideas except the range on the JT. I've had enough of that. There was a reason they reduced range on the ISU and ele, only to reimplement it JT...

Balance before realism.

isu-122 = jt (profit)

and is-2 rebalance = KT
panters / tigers = is-1/su-100/kv-85

isu 152 aoe profil can be adjust like brumbar.squad wipe will be reduce.
http://www.coh2-stats.com/ballistic_weapons/brummbar_150mm_mp
http://www.coh2-stats.com/ballistic_weapons/isu152_ml-20s_152mm_howitzer_gun_mp

isu-122 = jt (profit)

and is-2 rebalance = KT
panters / tigers = is-1/su-100/kv-85

Funny how the Russian guy wants realism...

So... ISU-152, IS-2 etc. had HORRIBLE reload times. Their optics weren´t on par with German optics. Their ergonomics were poor. The rounds carried were half as much as those of regular tanks. IS-2 had to set the gun to standard position after every shot in order to reload, having to readjust on target after every shot, leading to poor target tracking.

Panthers and Tigers were much better than the IS-1 and KV-85. The IS-1 flopped and barely saw any action. Hell, the KV-85 has the 85mm of the T-34/85 which was insufficient to penetrate the Panther frontally.

The IS-2 is hardly comparable to the KT as you claim. KT is a different league, in the same weight category the Panther is more comparable. And the Panther was the better performing machine, having the flatter trajectory, reload time (3x as fast), optics, crew comfort etc.

In general Soviet tanks were CLUMSY machines. Looking good on paper because of a big gun but lacking in everything else.

If you wanted realism, your Soviet tanks would be pretty much weaker than now. There would be more, but complaining that they are too weak on a 1v1 basis is wrong.

On topic: That being said, the ISU-152 and JT should rather get a reload time increase and a minimum range of 10m. I think that will be sufficient.

isu-122 = jt (profit)

and is-2 rebalance = KT
panters / tigers = is-1/su-100/kv-85

lol?

i.e. just nerf all axis armor

JT is second to only maus, isu122 is toy in comparison

IS2 is closer to Panther than Tiger, let alone KT

Panther & Tiger >> All of them

Funny how the Russian guy wants realism...

So... ISU-152, IS-2 etc. had HORRIBLE reload times. Their optics weren´t on par with German optics. Their ergonomics were poor. The rounds carried were half as much as those of regular tanks. IS-2 had to set the gun to standard position after every shot in order to reload, having to readjust on target after every shot, leading to poor accuracy.

Panthers and Tigers were much better than the IS-1 and KV-85. Hell the KV-85 has the 85mm of the T-34/85 which was insufficient to penetrate the Panther frontally.

In general Soviet tanks were CLUMSY machines. Looking good on paper because of a big gun but lacking in everything else.

All in all if you wanted realism, your Soviet tanks would be pretty much weaker than now. There would be more, but complaining that they are too weak on a 1v1 basis is wrong.

funny when this funny guy write me about realism.
... panter have 45 mm armor from side - in real life 1 t70 was kill 2 panter from ambush near Berlin.
Is-2 have separate loading ammo. The German tankmen had an order not to enter open fight with IS-2.
I can write so many facts why my post be correct
so dont write about optics/ ammo and another small details.
In general Soviet tanks were CLUMSY machines - knowledge at the level of school
I advise to read what what shortcomings At the GERMAN tanks and at the SOVIET. germans have MANY problems with new panters / tigers.

lol?

i.e. just nerf all axis armor

JT is second to only maus, isu122 is toy in comparison

IS2 is closer to Panther than Tiger, let alone KT

Panther & Tiger >> All of them

omg another pro. I wrote about balance of classes. in approximately + and - for each unit

omg another pro. I wrote about balance of classes. in approximately + and - for each unit

Ok you are right

ISU122
Armor front: 90mm
Weight: 45.5 tonnes
Armor Pen. @ 1km: 120mm

Jagdtiger
Armor front: 150mm
Weight: 71.7 tonnes
Armor Pen. @1km: 200mm

Yes, they are equal.

If we look at the large scale, throughout the war Soviet armor performed poorly. For whatever reason that is (crews, handheld AT and AT guns, tactics, doctrine, the tank design, radios etc.). Soviet super tanks - like you want them - are out of place.