Luchs is heavier and has tracks. Therefore more stable firing platform. Therefore more accurate. In the abstraction of CoH 2, that means it's more effective overall, which means more damage, accuracy, ect, all porportioned to balance ofc.
So there. Luchs has same gun but is not the same tank.
Luchs and 222
6 Nov 2014, 16:19 PM
#41
Posts: 395
I bought vCoH on January 3rd, 2007.
Still missing the days of vCoH 1.71. It had it's issues, like paks sniping 57s, and the strafe didn't work, but overall, it was probably the most balanced time in CoH history.
OF ruined that. CoH 2 is....balanced in a nasty way. Everyone has an equal stockpile of gamebreaking bullshit. USA is full of early game BS while the OKW doesn't get its BS until late game. It's just a question of how badly you exploit the faction's shit and how quickly, after a patch, you discover the gaping holes of bullshit Relic leaves. But either way, it's all BS. The only "BS" in vCoH that was gamechanging was the fast m8 vs a bunker.
Still missing the days of vCoH 1.71. It had it's issues, like paks sniping 57s, and the strafe didn't work, but overall, it was probably the most balanced time in CoH history.
OF ruined that. CoH 2 is....balanced in a nasty way. Everyone has an equal stockpile of gamebreaking bullshit. USA is full of early game BS while the OKW doesn't get its BS until late game. It's just a question of how badly you exploit the faction's shit and how quickly, after a patch, you discover the gaping holes of bullshit Relic leaves. But either way, it's all BS. The only "BS" in vCoH that was gamechanging was the fast m8 vs a bunker.
6 Nov 2014, 16:30 PM
#42
Posts: 2742
I would very much prefer that the 222 be resistant, but not immune, to small arms fire.
Machine guns, BARs and DPs should be able wear them down, but AT nades should deal a significant amount of damage.
It'd be nice if the unit could function as a way to really force some form of AT out of allies before the heavy tanks are called in. Strong enough to necessitate a detour in teching/waiting for CPs, but vulnerable enough to infantry AT that they can't spearhead assaults.
Infantry with upgraded weapons in green cover should beat a stationary 222. If the 222 flanks the cover, the 222 should win hands down, unless driven too close/pushing and gets in AT nade range.
Machine guns, BARs and DPs should be able wear them down, but AT nades should deal a significant amount of damage.
It'd be nice if the unit could function as a way to really force some form of AT out of allies before the heavy tanks are called in. Strong enough to necessitate a detour in teching/waiting for CPs, but vulnerable enough to infantry AT that they can't spearhead assaults.
Infantry with upgraded weapons in green cover should beat a stationary 222. If the 222 flanks the cover, the 222 should win hands down, unless driven too close/pushing and gets in AT nade range.
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6 Nov 2014, 16:38 PM
#43
1 Posts: 440
So, I've watched ImperialDane stream (yea i know) and he streamed some replay where soviets captured luchsa and it literally killed every inf that OKW and ost had, even obers were going down with first burst, but when i compare 222 to Luchs i see that 222 main gun is a crap, with main gun you can't kill inf, only MG's are doing some damage.
While both vehicles use same gun, why they are so much different? and why ffs Luchs is such a pain in the ass
so cute, he casted one of your games too
6 Nov 2014, 16:53 PM
#44
Posts: 2807 | Subs: 6
Luchs is heavier and has tracks. Therefore more stable firing platform. Therefore more accurate. In the abstraction of CoH 2, that means it's more effective overall, which means more damage, accuracy, ect, all porportioned to balance ofc.
So there. Luchs has same gun but is not the same tank.
That's the most retarded thing i've ever heard, If stug had 88mm gun like Tiger, would it be less accurate and fired slowly than Tiger?
6 Nov 2014, 16:56 PM
#45
Posts: 395
That's the most retarded thing i've ever heard, If stug had 88mm gun like Tiger, would it be less accurate and fired slowly than Tiger?
Not really because it's a single shot weapon. An autocannon is firing constantly so the recoil is affected every shot after the first (but the first still should fly true).
Then again the recoil could be negligable. Idk. Throwing an idea out
I bought vCoH on January 3rd, 2007.
Still missing the days of vCoH 1.71. It had it's issues, like paks sniping 57s, and the strafe didn't work, but overall, it was probably the most balanced time in CoH history.
OF ruined that. CoH 2 is....balanced in a nasty way. Everyone has an equal stockpile of gamebreaking bullshit. USA is full of early game BS while the OKW doesn't get its BS until late game. It's just a question of how badly you exploit the faction's shit and how quickly, after a patch, you discover the gaping holes of bullshit Relic leaves. But either way, it's all BS. The only "BS" in vCoH that was gamechanging was the fast m8 vs a bunker.
Still missing the days of vCoH 1.71. It had it's issues, like paks sniping 57s, and the strafe didn't work, but overall, it was probably the most balanced time in CoH history.
OF ruined that. CoH 2 is....balanced in a nasty way. Everyone has an equal stockpile of gamebreaking bullshit. USA is full of early game BS while the OKW doesn't get its BS until late game. It's just a question of how badly you exploit the faction's shit and how quickly, after a patch, you discover the gaping holes of bullshit Relic leaves. But either way, it's all BS. The only "BS" in vCoH that was gamechanging was the fast m8 vs a bunker.
6 Nov 2014, 17:08 PM
#46
Posts: 236
222 has always sucked, except when relic changed the cover system then it became OP for a little while and then it was nerfed.
It's barely a counter to snipers.
I never buy it and instead get the half track for quick reinforce and flame upgrade at t2.
What if it got a buff to being harder to hit when on the move? might make more survivable. It's total trash atm if there's any american player because of bazookas.
It's barely a counter to snipers.
I never buy it and instead get the half track for quick reinforce and flame upgrade at t2.
What if it got a buff to being harder to hit when on the move? might make more survivable. It's total trash atm if there's any american player because of bazookas.
6 Nov 2014, 17:23 PM
#47
9 
Posts: 102
All I'm going to say is, when WFA came out it actually used to be pretty effective against USF as a harassing unit. When rifles were given homing AT nades, its effectiveness dropped significantly. The homing nades were necessary, but in the process it indirectly nerfed the 222. Yeah, you can stay at range to avoid getting AT naded, but its DPS is absolutely awful unless it is point blank.
6 Nov 2014, 17:53 PM
#48
Posts: 371
The problem is , is luchs OP or 222 completely shit ?
Please relic and sega just take it easy with the dlc ...
6 Nov 2014, 17:57 PM
#49
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
The problem is , is luchs OP or 222 completely shit ?
Unit is fine, OH tech system is so-so.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
6 Nov 2014, 18:05 PM
#50
Posts: 2807 | Subs: 6
The problem is , is luchs OP or 222 completely shit ?
I believe both are correct
Luchs is somewhat a win unit, especially vs soviets where they lack of AT infantry, PTRS can kill it but it takes a lot of time, ZiS needs 3 shots to kill it, USA at least have bazookas, if not on rifles then still on captain.
And 222 is completely pudding
6 Nov 2014, 21:15 PM
#51
Posts: 160
210mp 15f 200hp 11/5.5 armor
190mp 15f 200hp 5.4/2.7 armor
Guess which units are we looking at here.
PD: AT guns do 160dmg.
Oh! Oh! I know!
The first one is the 222, the second one is the M3.
Seriously, why do you guys need something that costs only 15 to be a wrecking machine? You know why the luchs is so much better? Because it costs 50 ( or 75 if you want to take into account okw fuel econ ) fuel.
It costs only 20 mp more than a m3 scout car, which it demolishes once it gets the autocannon. With proper micro it can kill an M20 as well, which costs 20 fuel. Should we also buff the M20 then?
6 Nov 2014, 22:49 PM
#52
Posts: 262
222 =/= Luchs
Ostwind is a far better comparison.
Ostwind is a far better comparison.
7 Nov 2014, 03:05 AM
#53
Posts: 2742
Man I miss vCoH Pumas for punishing blobs.
The Luchs does well, but I have to play OKW in order to use it.
The Luchs does well, but I have to play OKW in order to use it.
Strategic Territory Points Mod:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=604491510
Classic resource points!
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=604491510
Classic resource points!
7 Nov 2014, 03:11 AM
#54
Posts: 135
222 does need a slight health buff, it loses to small arms too quickly lol
9 Nov 2014, 03:43 AM
#55
Posts: 482
Hmm 222 comes out around 5 minute? The darn Puma can come out around that time and is vastly superior
Yeah , they both hit the field at about 5 or 6 min. As same as the US M20 car.
But the 222 only has 200 HP, while the PUMA has 400 HP and M20 has 240 HP.
The 222 even can't beat the M20, as you know ,the M20 crews have bazookas.
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9 Nov 2014, 03:51 AM
#56
Posts: 482
Oh! Oh! I know!
The first one is the 222, the second one is the M3.
Seriously, why do you guys need something that costs only 15 to be a wrecking machine? You know why the luchs is so much better? Because it costs 50 ( or 75 if you want to take into account okw fuel econ ) fuel.
It costs only 20 mp more than a m3 scout car, which it demolishes once it gets the autocannon. With proper micro it can kill an M20 as well, which costs 20 fuel. Should we also buff the M20 then?
Sure the 222 has same level of HP with M3 and has autocannon. But 222 comes out later than M3. And it need 55 munitions to upgrade autocannon weapon.
222 can kill a M20? You must be joking... M20 crews have bazookas man... The crew can just abondond the vehicle and make 222 stoping firing on M20 and kill 222.
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9 Nov 2014, 04:12 AM
#57
Posts: 482
It's how it was back in the Alpha.
222 was shit as hell and absolutely not worth the cost.
Then with one of the first patches it became pretty good and was a very viable unit until it was nerfed again (but I don't remember that tbh. I guess it was patched because nowadays it doesn't do much damage. Maybe weapon profiles?).
However now it is not in a good state. IMO it's main reason is to hunt M3 and Snipers but I have never EVER managed to kill a sniper team because the 222 gun. Especially on retreating units it doesn't do the slightest bit of damage.
Absolutely yes!
The 222 is designed as a counter to sniper, which is said on the unit title. But...
It always sucks when it comes out. And it can't even be close to the soviet snipers before it dies.
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9 Nov 2014, 05:33 AM
#58
Posts: 1216
I think an additional armour upgrade similar to the M20/M8's side skirts could beef up its resistance to small arms, at an additional munitions cost.
Also, perhaps a timed ability that allows the MG/2cm to inflict suppression when firing as well. TBH I'd prefer that over the current vet1 ability. The USF M61 AA halftrack allows that without the need to activate or upgrade anything.
The Luchs only gets suppression at vet5, and really how long does a Luchs last when any half-brained opponent would try pretty much any AT tactic on that light tank? The Luchs for its part is just stronger and kicks more ass but cannot suppress until it survives going into the Warp and back.
Also, perhaps a timed ability that allows the MG/2cm to inflict suppression when firing as well. TBH I'd prefer that over the current vet1 ability. The USF M61 AA halftrack allows that without the need to activate or upgrade anything.
The Luchs only gets suppression at vet5, and really how long does a Luchs last when any half-brained opponent would try pretty much any AT tactic on that light tank? The Luchs for its part is just stronger and kicks more ass but cannot suppress until it survives going into the Warp and back.
10 Nov 2014, 05:23 AM
#59
Posts: 503
>Implying training matters at all in the age of machine guns and flamethrowers, which were both hilariously easy to use
which is why in Somalia the warlord faction soldiers were able to kill almost as many US soldiers as they lost since they had AK47 automatics and truck mounted HMGs....
Training always matters, it isn't as critical compared to Middle Ages when you needed years to properly wield weapons/armor/charger/etc but it isn't at all irrelevant.
10 Nov 2014, 05:27 AM
#60
Posts: 503
Sure the 222 has same level of HP with M3 and has autocannon. But 222 comes out later than M3. And it need 55 munitions to upgrade autocannon weapon.
222 can kill a M20? You must be joking... M20 crews have bazookas man... The crew can just abondond the vehicle and make 222 stoping firing on M20 and kill 222.
Lol at first post...one conscript staying near a sniper squad will be able to AT nade the car as soon as it gets close to where sniper is as sniper simply moves to position con squad between them and the car...then the engine on 222 is knocked out and the car will die a 4-5 seconds later to bolt action rifles of the squad
don't even start to think about chasing the sniper if there are guards around.On top of that you lose 55 ammo when the unit goes down if upgraded...if we make its armor better which it should then it certainly needs a price increase to prevent spamming/OP'ness but it would be much more useful than its current state.
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